Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 17:09     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
I think the article focuses on pandemic-specific issues--they are now getting the kids in college who had the first couple of years of high school math disrupted. You add on regular courses after that disruption and it's like building on sand. If you don't have a really solid algebra foundation (Algebra 1 and 2), nothing else really sticks.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 16:59     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College prof here. This thread seems to think there is something wrong in the HS math system broadly defined. Maybe there is: it's not my area, so I won't critique that.

But no one here has mentioned that many college students with math requirements can actually choose which course(s) they take. At my college, it doesn't matter what they took in HS: if they are not in a STEM-ish program, they often have only one required math course, and they are going to choose the lowest one they possibly can so they can earn a good grade with the least amount of work possible. TBH I don't blame them if they're not going to need calc or the like later on in their anticipated career.


+1
My kid who completed Calc in HS and had a 720 math score took the easy math course for his quant requirement because he's not a STEM major and had challenging other courses and he couldn't count the statistics courses for his major for the major and for the gen ed math requirement. So he took some applied math course that was an easy A for him.

No, this is not what this thread is about.

it's about the fact that too many incoming college students need remedial math.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 16:48     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:whats going on?
COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE NOW TAKING 9TH GRADE MATH IN COLLEGE. EVEN SCHOOLS LIKE GEORGE MASON UNIVERISTY.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-students-struggling-basic-math-many-stuck-9th-grade-level-professors-blame-pandemic

This is sad. we need to stop giving everyone an A and give real grades, let's go back to giving 0's and F's when they are earned.


I mean, GMU is fine for a commuter state school, but it isn't exactly in the upper echelons of higher education.


It is not GMU it is happening at colleges across the country.

Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:54     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:whats going on?
COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE NOW TAKING 9TH GRADE MATH IN COLLEGE. EVEN SCHOOLS LIKE GEORGE MASON UNIVERISTY.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-students-struggling-basic-math-many-stuck-9th-grade-level-professors-blame-pandemic

This is sad. we need to stop giving everyone an A and give real grades, let's go back to giving 0's and F's when they are earned.


I mean, GMU is fine for a commuter state school, but it isn't exactly in the upper echelons of higher education.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:47     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The truth as that American school and college students were always behind in basic math. This was decades before COVID. There is a reason that Asian-American parents are so stressed in this country. Issues like quality of education, lack of a good curriculum and instruction, no child left behind, no discipline and disruptive students, no textbooks, no finals. grade inflation - all point towards it. we knew that the quality of education in k-12 was shit. And that is the reason that for a decent and average education people go to magnet schools, Quality of private schools is also bad.


Should we emulate Japan or South Korea and send kids to cram schools after regular school? Maybe we should make having kids so miserable that people don't bother- that seems to be working great for those countries


Of course, we all know there is nothing in between


Calculus is attainable by anyone seeking a college degree. Math at this level is not hard. The US needs to remove the common perception/stigma that math is hard. We are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.


I agree. Even if you don't use it again it is training your brain for higher ordered thinking. All students deserve this.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:36     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:There were remedial math classes in college pre covid, too. I don't mean GMU, necessarily.

Math here is abysmal for the vast majority of Americans. Only a tiny % do very well in math.

This is what happens when you make college admissions test optional.


This is nothing new. I attended UGA in 1990 and we had to take assessment tests prior to enrolling (as one does for most colleges these days) to determine is we needed to be in remedial classes for math and English.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:33     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Isn't test optional great?


If GMU had a 91% acceptance rate then test optional has nothing to do with it.



It's 86.%, but the reason for the math problem is because GMU is the most diverse university in the state.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:31     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:whats going on?
COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE NOW TAKING 9TH GRADE MATH IN COLLEGE. EVEN SCHOOLS LIKE GEORGE MASON UNIVERISTY.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-students-struggling-basic-math-many-stuck-9th-grade-level-professors-blame-pandemic

This is sad. we need to stop giving everyone an A and give real grades, let's go back to giving 0's and F's when they are earned.

I'm with Fox News on this one. Let's elimate the department of education.

elimate (transitive, obsolete) To render smooth; to polish.



It needs to be eliminated altogether. It was a folly of Carter and the Democrats in 1979. All of the worthless employees from other agencies were sent there. The department has been a backwater of useless employees and programs ever since. FAFSA can be administered elsewhere or at the state level, where education issues should be handled.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:28     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:College prof here. This thread seems to think there is something wrong in the HS math system broadly defined. Maybe there is: it's not my area, so I won't critique that.

But no one here has mentioned that many college students with math requirements can actually choose which course(s) they take. At my college, it doesn't matter what they took in HS: if they are not in a STEM-ish program, they often have only one required math course, and they are going to choose the lowest one they possibly can so they can earn a good grade with the least amount of work possible. TBH I don't blame them if they're not going to need calc or the like later on in their anticipated career.


+1
My kid who completed Calc in HS and had a 720 math score took the easy math course for his quant requirement because he's not a STEM major and had challenging other courses and he couldn't count the statistics courses for his major for the major and for the gen ed math requirement. So he took some applied math course that was an easy A for him.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:23     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Who are all the whining babies flagging posts? Entire threads seem to be disappearing as well.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:05     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
College prof here. This thread seems to think there is something wrong in the HS math system broadly defined. Maybe there is: it's not my area, so I won't critique that.

But no one here has mentioned that many college students with math requirements can actually choose which course(s) they take. At my college, it doesn't matter what they took in HS: if they are not in a STEM-ish program, they often have only one required math course, and they are going to choose the lowest one they possibly can so they can earn a good grade with the least amount of work possible. TBH I don't blame them if they're not going to need calc or the like later on in their anticipated career.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 15:04     Subject: College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you are interested in this subject, check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Smartest-Kids-World-They-That/dp/145165443X

US students lag behind because, just as this thread demonstrates, we don't care. It is part of the culture.

It is sad.


The US lags because the US doesn't push kids off of a college track. If you selectively test US kids the same way kids in China are selectively tested, then the US doesn't lag. MIT is still the best university in the world for math and they manage to fill their freshman class with almost 90% Americans every year.


Yes MIT is a leading university and they fill their class with math capable students because they have not abandoned standardized testing. Yes, there are enough Americans who can do advanced math to fill MIT’s class and that of several other STEM schools but many kids are just getting pushed along in math to everyone’s detriment.

Not everyone needs to do high level math, but clearly many colleges need to offer remedial math classes. College is the new high school.

Every been at a store where the register is down. A significant number of Americans can’t make change unless a machine tells them how to do it.


I'm hoping the cashier doesn't have a college degree. The point is that enough American kids do well enough in math to fill out math/engineering/finance/physics... departments. If anything, we are producing too many of these kids given the number of seats available in math heavy majors at universities


I think the bolded statement actually perfectly conveys the lowering of standards in this country. The level of math required to make change is something that any middle schooler of average intelligence should be able to do with ease.

+1 But, most people can't do past 6th or 7th grade math, same for reading.



Sadly, this is true. I recently went to a fast food place and bought an ice cream cone that was $4.01. I only had a $20 bill and some loose change in my wallet, so I gave the cashier $20.01 in order to get $16 back.

The poor cashier (a high school student, I’m guessing) had no idea what to do.

Basic math skills are completely lacking. I tried to nicely explain that I should get back $16, but the cashier ended up giving me $15 and a bunch of loose change. I let it go at the time, but it’s stuck with me that kids aren’t being taught basic math like how to make change.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 14:40     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The truth as that American school and college students were always behind in basic math. This was decades before COVID. There is a reason that Asian-American parents are so stressed in this country. Issues like quality of education, lack of a good curriculum and instruction, no child left behind, no discipline and disruptive students, no textbooks, no finals. grade inflation - all point towards it. we knew that the quality of education in k-12 was shit. And that is the reason that for a decent and average education people go to magnet schools, Quality of private schools is also bad.


Should we emulate Japan or South Korea and send kids to cram schools after regular school? Maybe we should make having kids so miserable that people don't bother- that seems to be working great for those countries


Of course, we all know there is nothing in between


Calculus is attainable by anyone seeking a college degree. Math at this level is not hard. The US needs to remove the common perception/stigma that math is hard. We are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 14:28     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The truth as that American school and college students were always behind in basic math. This was decades before COVID. There is a reason that Asian-American parents are so stressed in this country. Issues like quality of education, lack of a good curriculum and instruction, no child left behind, no discipline and disruptive students, no textbooks, no finals. grade inflation - all point towards it. we knew that the quality of education in k-12 was shit. And that is the reason that for a decent and average education people go to magnet schools, Quality of private schools is also bad.


Should we emulate Japan or South Korea and send kids to cram schools after regular school? Maybe we should make having kids so miserable that people don't bother- that seems to be working great for those countries


Of course, we all know there is nothing in between


Maybe the top track at a US school is the in between
Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 14:27     Subject: Re:College students are struggling with basic math,
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The truth as that American school and college students were always behind in basic math. This was decades before COVID. There is a reason that Asian-American parents are so stressed in this country. Issues like quality of education, lack of a good curriculum and instruction, no child left behind, no discipline and disruptive students, no textbooks, no finals. grade inflation - all point towards it. we knew that the quality of education in k-12 was shit. And that is the reason that for a decent and average education people go to magnet schools, Quality of private schools is also bad.


Should we emulate Japan or South Korea and send kids to cram schools after regular school? Maybe we should make having kids so miserable that people don't bother- that seems to be working great for those countries


Of course, we all know there is nothing in between