Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look in the mid-late 80s I left HS with Algebra 2. That was considered a monumental fail at the time. I went to a Russell Group UK university and have 2 post-graduate degrees I picked up thereafter.

But my kids are now in public HS and the idea that AP Calc AB is the baseline for HS graduates has been drummed into us parents, and it's kind of difficult for me to see past that.

It's been drummed in by other parents in the gossip chain. Colleges, meanwhile, are moving toward preferring stats, because (a) it's more useful for non-STEM, and (b) they see that students come in with calculus credit but performing poorly in next level calculus.

Actually it has been drummed into me both by a dear friend who attended Harvard and a consultant who attended Brown. I think they are on to something...

Is this joke response? This folks know no more than any other parent responding here and likely less if they don’t have a kid who applied to college in the past two years.

It is not a joke. I think you're a bone head. What they DO know is what the tippy top colleges expect from their incoming students. They know this stuff first hand.

Alumni from decades ago don’t know current admissions processes first hand. I don’t know why you would think that.

You assume they graduated decades ago and you also assume they have nothing to do with current applicants. If you try reading what I wrote again, you'll see that at least one of the people I mention is a consultant. That is a college consultant. The other did not graduate decades ago, but in the last 5 yrs.

Is there a specific math requirement?

Applicants to Harvard should excel in a challenging high school math sequence corresponding to their educational interests and aspirations. We recommend that applicants take four years of math courses in high school. Ideally, these math courses will focus on conceptual understanding, promote higher-order thinking, and encourage students to use mathematical reasoning to critically examine the world. Examples include rigorous and relevant courses in computer science, statistics and its subfields, mathematical modeling, calculus, and other advanced math subjects.

Students’ math records are viewed holistically, and no specific course is required. Specifically, calculus is not a requirement for admission to Harvard. We understand that applicants do not have the same opportunities and course offerings in their high schools. Moreover, many programs of study at Harvard do not require knowledge of calculus. We encourage applicants to take the courses that are available to them and aligned with their interests and goals.

Students intending to study engineering, computer science, physics, mathematics, statistics or other fields where calculus is needed may benefit from taking calculus in high school. However, students at Harvard can still pursue such fields by starting with one of our introductory calculus classes that has no high school calculus prerequisite. On balance, we encourage all students to master foundational mathematical material instead of rushing through any of the more advanced courses.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/application-requirements#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20calculus%20is%20not%20a,not%20require%20knowledge%20of%20calculus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look in the mid-late 80s I left HS with Algebra 2. That was considered a monumental fail at the time. I went to a Russell Group UK university and have 2 post-graduate degrees I picked up thereafter.

But my kids are now in public HS and the idea that AP Calc AB is the baseline for HS graduates has been drummed into us parents, and it's kind of difficult for me to see past that.

It's been drummed in by other parents in the gossip chain. Colleges, meanwhile, are moving toward preferring stats, because (a) it's more useful for non-STEM, and (b) they see that students come in with calculus credit but performing poorly in next level calculus.

Actually it has been drummed into me both by a dear friend who attended Harvard and a consultant who attended Brown. I think they are on to something...

Is this joke response? This folks know no more than any other parent responding here and likely less if they don’t have a kid who applied to college in the past two years.

It is not a joke. I think you're a bone head. What they DO know is what the tippy top colleges expect from their incoming students. They know this stuff first hand.

Alumni from decades ago don’t know current admissions processes first hand. I don’t know why you would think that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look in the mid-late 80s I left HS with Algebra 2. That was considered a monumental fail at the time. I went to a Russell Group UK university and have 2 post-graduate degrees I picked up thereafter.

But my kids are now in public HS and the idea that AP Calc AB is the baseline for HS graduates has been drummed into us parents, and it's kind of difficult for me to see past that.

It's been drummed in by other parents in the gossip chain. Colleges, meanwhile, are moving toward preferring stats, because (a) it's more useful for non-STEM, and (b) they see that students come in with calculus credit but performing poorly in next level calculus.

Actually it has been drummed into me both by a dear friend who attended Harvard and a consultant who attended Brown. I think they are on to something...

Is this joke response? This folks know no more than any other parent responding here and likely less if they don’t have a kid who applied to college in the past two years.

It is not a joke. I think you're a bone head. What they DO know is what the tippy top colleges expect from their incoming students. They know this stuff first hand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was the rice/candy comment a joke? No child - even a recruited athlete or major donor- would be admitted without preclaculus. Our counselor from a dc private said not having AP calculus on the transcript essentially shuts out top 50 schools. Not having calculus shuts out top 75 schools. If your kid doesn’t have precalc and it’s without some sort of explanation I would be aiming for like schools in the 100s.

Absolutely this.

Seriously? Taking pre-cal as a senior shuts out top 75? Does anyone have a recent admissions example disputing this?

Most applicants are going to have one to three years more math. Unless a kid is in a group that is an institutional priority, they are not going to be competitive with students with more rigor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was the rice/candy comment a joke? No child - even a recruited athlete or major donor- would be admitted without preclaculus. Our counselor from a dc private said not having AP calculus on the transcript essentially shuts out top 50 schools. Not having calculus shuts out top 75 schools. If your kid doesn’t have precalc and it’s without some sort of explanation I would be aiming for like schools in the 100s.

Absolutely this.

Seriously? Taking pre-cal as a senior shuts out top 75? Does anyone have a recent admissions example disputing this?

There's a HUGE difference in: not taking high school Pre-calc, and not taking Calculus.

For college admission, Op's question was Pre-Calc. Posters, stop making this your opportunity to debate other Advanced Math.

Anonymous wrote:Was the rice/candy comment a joke? No child - even a recruited athlete or major donor- would be admitted without preclaculus. Our counselor from a dc private said not having AP calculus on the transcript essentially shuts out top 50 schools. Not having calculus shuts out top 75 schools. If your kid doesn’t have precalc and it’s without some sort of explanation I would be aiming for like schools in the 100s.

Absolutely this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look in the mid-late 80s I left HS with Algebra 2. That was considered a monumental fail at the time. I went to a Russell Group UK university and have 2 post-graduate degrees I picked up thereafter.

But my kids are now in public HS and the idea that AP Calc AB is the baseline for HS graduates has been drummed into us parents, and it's kind of difficult for me to see past that.

It's been drummed in by other parents in the gossip chain. Colleges, meanwhile, are moving toward preferring stats, because (a) it's more useful for non-STEM, and (b) they see that students come in with calculus credit but performing poorly in next level calculus.

Actually it has been drummed into me both by a dear friend who attended Harvard and a consultant who attended Brown. I think they are on to something...

Is this joke response? This folks know no more than any other parent responding here and likely less if they don’t have a kid who applied to college in the past two years.

Anonymous wrote:My kid at Large State U didn't even get to Alg 2 in HS. Alg 1-Geometry-AFDA-ProbStat was their sequence. Didn't take SAT or ACT; applied test-optional. BFA candidate, took Everyday Math for quantitative requirement and did well - also enjoyed it.

Alg 2 and Pre Calc are NOT graduation requirements. (VA public school.)

A BFA candidate is judged predominantly by his or her art. It’s a bit irrelevant for most people on this board. My kid - who graduated NYU with a Bachelor’s in Music Performance - had AB Calc, but that is probably more common for musicians than other artists. I don’t believe it mattered one iota for their admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please share if you or they regret their decision.

How did it work out as far as college admissions. Did it end up being a factor?

Unless you're a recruited athlete, there is no chance of getting into a top 20 school without at least Calculus AB, never mind pre-cal or less. Zero chance. The first thing colleges look at is course rigor. Dropping the ball in math is a quick way to the reject pile. There might be some exceptions for very high SAT or ACT math scores and maybe some artsy schools like Juilliard, but generally, no chance.

It's not 1989 anymore. Smart kids are expected to do calculus these days.

NP. I disagree. I could say "smart kids are expected to do a 5th year of language (AP)" and you'd probably disagree with that. But for MY kids - all humanities kids - they did do 5 years of a foreign language, and no pre-calc. They all got into excellent universities and none are pursuing STEM degrees. I agree with the posters who say that a lot of this is just parental gossip and pressure. If interested in STEM, then sure - do Calculus. If pursuing humanities degree, there is absolutely no need.

Was the rice/candy comment a joke? No child - even a recruited athlete or major donor- would be admitted without preclaculus. Our counselor from a dc private said not having AP calculus on the transcript essentially shuts out top 50 schools. Not having calculus shuts out top 75 schools. If your kid doesn’t have precalc and it’s without some sort of explanation I would be aiming for like schools in the 100s.

Anonymous wrote:Please share if you or they regret their decision.

How did it work out as far as college admissions. Did it end up being a factor?

Unless you're a recruited athlete, there is no chance of getting into a top 20 school without at least Calculus AB, never mind pre-cal or less. Zero chance. The first thing colleges look at is course rigor. Dropping the ball in math is a quick way to the reject pile. There might be some exceptions for very high SAT or ACT math scores and maybe some artsy schools like Juilliard, but generally, no chance.

It's not 1989 anymore. Smart kids are expected to do calculus these days.

Anonymous wrote:The more important question is will the student be prepared for college without pre-calc. Any stem or business field is going to build upon calc, so entering college without having pre-calc would be detrimental. Even a humanities or art student will need to take a general college level math course. The bottom line is not taking pre-calc in high school is setting up for math failure in college.

I remember tutoring an incoming freshman during the summer. He was admitted to a top 50 school. The tutoring was in algebra 1 and fractions.

My DC took precalc in HS. But took ‘precalc without trig’ class freshman yr in college. Non STEM major. If STEM, class would have been precalc with trig. Then took calculus following semester.