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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

That’s a bit of a smear. Just about half of Kenyon students receive need based aid (averaging over 50k a year). Grinnell is mid 60s, and is admittedly very high. Most peer schools around 50 pct.

Pros and cons associated with sending your kid to a school where the parents are predominantly not financially successful.

Kenton’s 19 percent yield is very, very low for a highly ranked liberal arts college. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the lowest in the top 25 or 30. And it’s that low even with an ED option. That means it is very rarely the first choice for its applicants. It’s generally viewed as a safety/target for kids reaching for more prestigious schools.

We had good friends who both went to UVA. Their kid applied from in state and was denied. Ended up at Kenyon. Man, were they bitter.

Half the class is ED, similar to everywhere else, so by definition it's the first choice of half the students (even if some are being strategic about their ED prospects, but that is true everywhere). Sure the RD yield is lower versus other schools--maybe they lose out to other schools (like money bags Grinnell) on financial aid, maybe they admit good kids without playing yield management games like other schools. But how many kids are applying RD to their first choice school? RD is the realm of kids who didn't get in anywhere ED or who are playing the merit/need-based aid game.

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

That’s a bit of a smear. Just about half of Kenyon students receive need based aid (averaging over 50k a year). Grinnell is mid 60s, and is admittedly very high. Most peer schools around 50 pct.

Pros and cons associated with sending your kid to a school where the parents are predominantly not financially successful.

Kenton’s 19 percent yield is very, very low for a highly ranked liberal arts college. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the lowest in the top 25 or 30. And it’s that low even with an ED option. That means it is very rarely the first choice for its applicants. It’s generally viewed as a safety/target for kids reaching for more prestigious schools.

We had good friends who both went to UVA. Their kid applied from in state and was denied. Ended up at Kenyon. Man, were they bitter.

I feel like I've seen this particular tale of bitterness before on DCUM. Like a dozen times.

Yea. Just last paragraph was thrown in just for fun. It’s pretty meaningless even though it’s true. But the first paragraph? It both means something AND is true. Numbers don’t lie.

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

That’s a bit of a smear. Just about half of Kenyon students receive need based aid (averaging over 50k a year). Grinnell is mid 60s, and is admittedly very high. Most peer schools around 50 pct.

Pros and cons associated with sending your kid to a school where the parents are predominantly not financially successful.

Kenton’s 19 percent yield is very, very low for a highly ranked liberal arts college. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the lowest in the top 25 or 30. And it’s that low even with an ED option. That means it is very rarely the first choice for its applicants. It’s generally viewed as a safety/target for kids reaching for more prestigious schools.

We had good friends who both went to UVA. Their kid applied from in state and was denied. Ended up at Kenyon. Man, were they bitter.

I feel like I've seen this particular tale of bitterness before on DCUM. Like a dozen times.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Meh. I won a Fulbright and went to a college I guarantee you never heard of.

Hence, "for what it's worth." This was in response to the US News Best Undergraduate Teaching rankings, where Agnes Scott College came in #3 and Williams came in #23. Again, FWIW.

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

That’s a bit of a smear. Just about half of Kenyon students receive need based aid (averaging over 50k a year). Grinnell is mid 60s, and is admittedly very high. Most peer schools around 50 pct.

Pros and cons associated with sending your kid to a school where the parents are predominantly not financially successful.

Kenton’s 19 percent yield is very, very low for a highly ranked liberal arts college. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the lowest in the top 25 or 30. And it’s that low even with an ED option. That means it is very rarely the first choice for its applicants. It’s generally viewed as a safety/target for kids reaching for more prestigious schools.

We had good friends who both went to UVA. Their kid applied from in state and was denied. Ended up at Kenyon. Man, were they bitter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Meh. I won a Fulbright and went to a college I guarantee you never heard of.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

That’s a bit of a smear. Just about half of Kenyon students receive need based aid (averaging over 50k a year). Grinnell is mid 60s, and is admittedly very high. Most peer schools around 50 pct.

Pros and cons associated with sending your kid to a school where the parents are predominantly not financially successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

Grinnell is a better school but Kenyon is ok for preppy rich students.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

For what it’s worth, Kenyon crushed Grinnell (and a lot of other schools) on Fulbrights. https://www.fulbrightprogram.org/tpi/?_filter_tpi_type=scholar&_filter_tpi_year=2022-2023&_filter_tpi_degree=ba

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is rarely a student’s first choice. Its yield is 19 percent, which is terrible. Grinnell’s yield is over 40 percent. There’s little doubt which school is considered more desirable.

I conceded it was more selective. Acceptance rate and yield are both mathematical indicators of that. My point was, it doesn’t actually seem better in that the schools are quite comparable in terms of objective attributes. Begs the question, how much of a school’s selectivity is simply a result of its selectivity? In other words, kids want to go simply because it’s hard to get in.

Grinnell’s wealth also helps. I’m sure some of the interest is tied to the possibility of getting an appealing aid package.

Yep. Grinnell is loaded and need blind. If I were a kid with need, it would be a safer play ED. And for RD, the aid/merit package for top students will probably always be better at Grinnell. Hence, more apps and higher yield.

Starting this application cycle, Grinnell guarantees a minimum merit scholarship (NOT depending on financial need) of $20,000 a year for all four years to any student admitted ED. That’s huge. I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

https://www.grinnell.edu/admission/financial-aid/types-aid/scholarships

Wow. That is actually huge. Smart move. Takes the problem of comparing merit awards off the table, which prevents some applicants from going ED. In essence they just cut their cost of attendance by 25 percent or so. It’s like a free year. I think a lot of families will be interested in this considering there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference when you compare one SLAC versus another. Applications will soar. Smart way for Grinnell to use its endowment. Honestly, why choose Swat if Grinnell is 25 percent cheaper? Unless you have money to burn.

It’s been an automatic $10k for the last few years but they just doubled it. And, again, it’s just the minimum. They give some kids more.

As we approach 100k a year, east coast need blind schools are going to lose ground. The best and the brightest upper middle class kids will follow the money.

Grinnell is need blind.

What you mean is that need blind schools that don’t give merit aid will lose ground.

My mistake. But typically the schools with need blind polices don’t do merit aid philosophically like the Ivies. Need aware schools tend to play with merit as well. My main point is that the need blind/no merit framework is going to break because price sensitive upper middle class families are going to pursue less expensive alternatives. It’s the law of compounding. When you jack up costs 5 pct on 60k, it’s different from doing so on 90k. The costs are too high relative to even professional salaries. So as more UMC students follow merit aid, those merit aid schools will be the ones that are more selective. Soon Grinnell will be perceived as “better” than Swat. Over time the non merit LACS will devolve into Trinity. A third FA cases and the rest mediocre plus full pay rich kids.

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell also gives $10,000 to ALL ED students off the bat. or at least they did for this year's class.

Bro you need to catch up. Someone just posted this a few posts ago, after noting that the amount has been doubled to $20k for next year’s class.

Grinnell also gives $10,000 to ALL ED students off the bat. or at least they did for this year's class.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

For what it’s worth, US News ranks Grinnell much higher - and tied with Swat - than Kenyon in its “Best Undergraduate Teaching” rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/undergraduate-teaching

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is a much easier admit than Grinnell and doesn’t have nearly the money or prestige. Grinnell has even surpassed Carleton in selectivity. It’s the most selective liberal arts college in the greater Midwest and is nearly as selective as the top liberal arts colleges in the northeast. I wouldn’t label it a target for anyone not applying ED.

It’s probably more selective but I don’t know, would the student’s experience be better? Is the faculty better? Is the student body materially more impressive? Are career outcomes really better? I hear a lot of meh things vis a vis Grinnell and so much gushing praise from families associated with Kenyon. If I were 17, I’d choose Kenyon.

I'm a Williams alum with two extended family members who are on the faculty at other SLACs named here. Based on my own experience and what I hear from my family, the quality of teaching at the top 50 or so SLACs is pretty high across the board. And, yes, the Kenyon students, alums and parents whom I know do seem to be very pleased with everything about it. All that said, I agree with many who find OP's list and strategy as laid out here a little flaky.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is rarely a student’s first choice. Its yield is 19 percent, which is terrible. Grinnell’s yield is over 40 percent. There’s little doubt which school is considered more desirable.

I conceded it was more selective. Acceptance rate and yield are both mathematical indicators of that. My point was, it doesn’t actually seem better in that the schools are quite comparable in terms of objective attributes. Begs the question, how much of a school’s selectivity is simply a result of its selectivity? In other words, kids want to go simply because it’s hard to get in.

Grinnell’s wealth also helps. I’m sure some of the interest is tied to the possibility of getting an appealing aid package.

Yep. Grinnell is loaded and need blind. If I were a kid with need, it would be a safer play ED. And for RD, the aid/merit package for top students will probably always be better at Grinnell. Hence, more apps and higher yield.

Starting this application cycle, Grinnell guarantees a minimum merit scholarship (NOT depending on financial need) of $20,000 a year for all four years to any student admitted ED. That’s huge. I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

https://www.grinnell.edu/admission/financial-aid/types-aid/scholarships

Wow. That is actually huge. Smart move. Takes the problem of comparing merit awards off the table, which prevents some applicants from going ED. In essence they just cut their cost of attendance by 25 percent or so. It’s like a free year. I think a lot of families will be interested in this considering there is not a whole heck of a lot of difference when you compare one SLAC versus another. Applications will soar. Smart way for Grinnell to use its endowment. Honestly, why choose Swat if Grinnell is 25 percent cheaper? Unless you have money to burn.

It’s been an automatic $10k for the last few years but they just doubled it. And, again, it’s just the minimum. They give some kids more.

As we approach 100k a year, east coast need blind schools are going to lose ground. The best and the brightest upper middle class kids will follow the money.

Grinnell is need blind.

What you mean is that need blind schools that don’t give merit aid will lose ground.