Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 21:08     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ramsey's insistence on paying off mortgage is also smart. Most people spend extra money so instead making additional payments on mortgage can shave off several years.


Ramsey's advice is for people who can't make good decisions for themselves, so they need someone to tell them to do suboptimal things that are easier to comply with because they require less self-control to avoid temptation.

Unsurprisingly, Ramsey and his target audience are religious people.


Well, considering most Americans have student loans, mortgages, car leases and credit card debt, 80% of the nation is his target audience, religious or not.

Homebuyers with student loans, car lease and mortgage with PMI, go out to buy shopping for new furniture and decor as soon as they sign the title. Why won't one wait and save?
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 19:52     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:Ramsey's insistence on paying off mortgage is also smart. Most people spend extra money so instead making additional payments on mortgage can shave off several years.


Ramsey's advice is for people who can't make good decisions for themselves, so they need someone to tell them to do suboptimal things that are easier to comply with because they require less self-control to avoid temptation.

Unsurprisingly, Ramsey and his target audience are religious people.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 18:50     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure you know what they earn? I have no idea why, but my parents are convinced I make like 40-50k and I make 150k.



Yes I know. She has told me.


My parents know my base. They don’t know my bonus is equal to my base, my new truck is company owned/maintained/I don’t pay for gas, that they pay for my boutique gym membership.

Either way, you leave them alone and let them manage their own finances.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 18:05     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:Answers on DCUm seem to always assume that people don’t get along with their family member and that everyone is secretly judgmental and hateful. If this is someone you love and you think they are putting themselves in a bad situation why would you not kindly say something? I think you can say it in away that is not accusatory but just saying that you’re worried that they aren’t saving enough for rainy day because young people underestimate how hard it will rain. Open a conversation. I think I had zero idea when I bought a house how frickin’ expensive it will be — that eventually you will have to replace every g-d thing from the water heater in the basement up to the roof and probably all the windows in between, so you should basically plan for at least one major expense a year.


Sounds to me like OP is guessing and doesn’t actually know exactly what their financial situation is? Not sure if it’s appropriate to discuss if based on assumptions.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 16:15     Subject: Re:DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, I think it took my DHs family years to realize that I had family money. It's not something you'd really know about me otherwise in my 20s, I worked hard and mostly spent the money I earned. But as the years went on and we were able to buy a house, then renovate that house, then send my DH to law school, then take a year off work when the babies were born... I think they realize it now.

So I guess I'm just sharing this to say that you really don't know her fiancé's financial situation, even if you know his salary.


This. We paid for our own wedding because we didn’t want my parents to feel embarrassed about the financial discrepancies between families or try to “keep up with the Jones” and spend more money that is practical for them. My in-laws gave us a new car for a wedding present. My parents gave us a vacuum cleaner. We never mentioned the car and my parents assumed we bought it ourselves. My parents know my in-laws pay for our vacations with them, but I don’t think my parents realize my husband’s family gives us money. I think it would make my mom feel bad or paranoid we love her less (we don’t). I think my dad would get weird and think I should be more generous with them. Money is complicated and it makes people behave poorly. It’s best to have boundaries.


He’s probably right. Sounds like you can afford it.
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2023 11:06     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:I would have a one-time conversation with them that includes an offer to connect them with (pay for) financial advisor who can help them create a budget. If they reject the offer I'd drop it.


This is the best advice.

Has DD always been bad with money or is this new?
Anonymous
Post 08/21/2023 11:00     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure you know what they earn? I have no idea why, but my parents are convinced I make like 40-50k and I make 150k.



Yes I know. She has told me.


Are you sure she told the truth? My spouse earned more than my father with decades less experience in the same industry. We downplayed our salaries so that we didn't embarrass him.


Why does DCUM always insist people have secret income!!!


Because most people do.


LOL no. "Most people" do not lie to their mom about how much money they really make. What an absolutely bizarre thing to believe.


It really depends on your family. My husband and I stopped sharing anything related to money with both sides of our family after we bought our first house in DC. They couldn't fathom what we pid because they live in much lower COLAs. Our combined income is now probably 8x more than either of our families ever made (and we were both raised upper middle class).
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 22:09     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:Answers on DCUm seem to always assume that people don’t get along with their family member and that everyone is secretly judgmental and hateful. If this is someone you love and you think they are putting themselves in a bad situation why would you not kindly say something?


Million dollar question!!
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 15:25     Subject: Re:DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:Fwiw, I think it took my DHs family years to realize that I had family money. It's not something you'd really know about me otherwise in my 20s, I worked hard and mostly spent the money I earned. But as the years went on and we were able to buy a house, then renovate that house, then send my DH to law school, then take a year off work when the babies were born... I think they realize it now.

So I guess I'm just sharing this to say that you really don't know her fiancé's financial situation, even if you know his salary.


This. We paid for our own wedding because we didn’t want my parents to feel embarrassed about the financial discrepancies between families or try to “keep up with the Jones” and spend more money that is practical for them. My in-laws gave us a new car for a wedding present. My parents gave us a vacuum cleaner. We never mentioned the car and my parents assumed we bought it ourselves. My parents know my in-laws pay for our vacations with them, but I don’t think my parents realize my husband’s family gives us money. I think it would make my mom feel bad or paranoid we love her less (we don’t). I think my dad would get weird and think I should be more generous with them. Money is complicated and it makes people behave poorly. It’s best to have boundaries.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 15:15     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Answers on DCUm seem to always assume that people don’t get along with their family member and that everyone is secretly judgmental and hateful. If this is someone you love and you think they are putting themselves in a bad situation why would you not kindly say something? I think you can say it in away that is not accusatory but just saying that you’re worried that they aren’t saving enough for rainy day because young people underestimate how hard it will rain. Open a conversation. I think I had zero idea when I bought a house how frickin’ expensive it will be — that eventually you will have to replace every g-d thing from the water heater in the basement up to the roof and probably all the windows in between, so you should basically plan for at least one major expense a year.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:37     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
I paid off my 30-year mortgage 10 years early. Really I could have paid it off 20 years early but my father warned about being being "house poor". I was never in danger of that, honestly, and I see how much money I wasted on interest.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 13:27     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Bankruptcy filings (including personal) have risen to over 10% in 2023:

https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2023/07/31/bankruptcy-filings-rise-10-percent

OP: your daughter is racking up credit card debt she will never be able to pay back.

She is headed toward her 1st bankruptcy.

She and her guy will NOT change their spending habits though. Just watch.
Anonymous
Post 08/18/2023 08:11     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
A little iming marriage is just a good time to open gentle conversation with her about the future. Does she feel comfortable with her career? Do she and her SO have similar financial goals? Are they in good alignment about prioritizing savings for future family, home, retirement, etc.? You can spark conversation without even mentioning the word overspending or making any judgmental comments. Just nudge conversation with her, which will hopefully get her to talk with him. Somewhere in there you can suggest that meeting with a financial advisor would be a great way for them to get started in their new life
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2023 09:50     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Ramsey's insistence on paying off mortgage is also smart. Most people spend extra money so instead making additional payments on mortgage can shave off several years.
Anonymous
Post 08/17/2023 08:09     Subject: DD and fiancé are living way beyond their means. Do I say anything?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Dave Ramsey's book.


I listened to Ramsay, read some of his materials, and yes, a few of his ideas are practical and productive. Overall, however, his guidance for the majority of his listeners- younger, conservative, evangelical leaning families-simply lacks applicability. Ramsay, like many of his type (Bible thumping demagogues) preys on the ignorant and gullible, fleecing those who buy his brand of economic salvation.

Those who strictly follow Ramsay’s ‘no debt ever’ ‘cash only for a house, and if you must buy a house, only a 15 year mortgage with 20% down’ will be renters forever.

If Ramsay had not mined his money schtick into a profitable income stream, he would be peddling Amway, MonaVie, Lululemon, or the newest MLM.


Ramsay's debt snowball is great advice for people who have accumulated credit card debt and need "wins" as an incentive to keep going with debt repayment. Everything else is dubious.