Team brother. So many women cheered on for prioritizing their own care over their family and then just dip out… it’s one thing to carve out time (which is great). Instead a lot of this feels like artificial “wellbeing” instead of investing in and realizing joy or connection (which takes hard work).

Ok so WTF did he have FOUR FREAKING KIDS with someone who wasn't interested in parenting? That's on him.

What he does now: I'd give it a few years to let the youngest get a bit older (I'm assuming the smallest is a baby/toddler). Once the youngest is a 4 or so, I'd start making a plan to leave.

Also he needs to get a vasectomy.

Anonymous wrote:The wife is managing the schedules of four kids and two live-in staff. It sounds like the house is busy but functioning. I think you are underestimating the amount of work she is doing OP, and clearly your brother doesn't appreciate it.

ITA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with being raised by nannies. This country is strange because there is such little family and community support. So instead we buy this help.

It is very hard raising young kids but not doing so is these parents’ loss. I had such hard times with a newborn and a toddler but wouldn’t trade that for the world: they are some of my fondest memories.

I can’t imagine 4 little ones so close in age. Must be overwhelming for her. It’s good she has hired help.

Don’t be so dramatic. This mom 1) takes one camping trip a month 2) has a very part time summer volunteer job 3) works out a lot.

She’s raising her kids. She’s just also taking reasonable time away for herself.

I am a SAHM of young kids and very much in favor of SAHPs taking time away for themselves. But the amount of time OP's SIL is spending away from the kids/family seems pretty excessive. You think it's OK for her to be gone 1/4 weekends a year for non-necessary/leisure travel? That's pretty self-centered as a parent of young kids to take that much time for yourself. And it seems she doesn't enjoy the kids/family life. She probably isn't too fond of OP's brother either.

Of course it’s okay to be away 2 days out of 30

No it’s not selfish to spend 6% of your time away. Conversely she is home 94% of the time.

To this poster: it isn’t 2 of 30 days. The camping trips are 5-10 days each.

To a former poster: she does not work. She doesn’t grocery shop or handle meals or bedtimes. Her primary contribution is managing the schedules. Not driving them just preparing the schedules and arranging for where the kids should be by someone else.

Uhh…are you sure she isn’t having an affair / second life…?

I'm surprised we got to page 5 before someone brought this up. This was my first thought.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this new? If not why did your brother go in to have for kids with a woman who doesn’t want to parent? For kids under six is a LOT. If it is new has he sat down to talk to her about it rather than just criticizing her on how she’s living her life/implying she’s a bad parent? I mean sure maybe SIL’s a terrible person but it’s not like she created those kids in her own.

Seems to have developed after the first child. Not a strong connection with the kids. They all want him when they want a parent, not her. And yes, he has spoken to her directly, and with a couples therapist, and his own therapist. She simply says she doesn’t care what he thinks about her solo plans and she is goes anyway.

So when she struggled to connect with and find the energy to parent one child he thought it was a great idea to impregnate her three more times? And he’s the one who’s trapped here?

I see nothing wrong with a dad being the primary parent and/or the mom travelling. To me the issue is that the kids need more cumulative parental attention than is available. Your brother probably can’t give much more (see above four little kids is a lot!) and his wife probably is going to need to step up but honestly I think they’re both wildly at fault for continuing to have kids when the issues with parental attention were present with just one kid.

+1.

OP, I realize this is your brother so you are inclined to be sympathetic to him, but he needs to own his part in the creation of his family and work with what he's got and not his idealized version of what he wanted.

Personally, I think it’s best to avoid separation and divorce when you have very young kids in the home, barring abusive situations.

Multiple young kids is very stressful, the mother is going through extreme hormonal and physical changes with pregnancies back to back and the relationship and family dynamic is changing a lot. The family is going through huge shift after shift and there hasn’t been time to settle.

I know it is not your business but imo it would be a mistake for your brother to rush to divorce or assume he will be miserable forever or that the family dynamic will never change.

All the details make this sound like a troll post. 4 kids under 6! 2 live-in nannies! 10-day camping trips! It’s got everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with being raised by nannies. This country is strange because there is such little family and community support. So instead we buy this help.

It is very hard raising young kids but not doing so is these parents’ loss. I had such hard times with a newborn and a toddler but wouldn’t trade that for the world: they are some of my fondest memories.

I can’t imagine 4 little ones so close in age. Must be overwhelming for her. It’s good she has hired help.

Don’t be so dramatic. This mom 1) takes one camping trip a month 2) has a very part time summer volunteer job 3) works out a lot.

She’s raising her kids. She’s just also taking reasonable time away for herself.

I am a SAHM of young kids and very much in favor of SAHPs taking time away for themselves. But the amount of time OP's SIL is spending away from the kids/family seems pretty excessive. You think it's OK for her to be gone 1/4 weekends a year for non-necessary/leisure travel? That's pretty self-centered as a parent of young kids to take that much time for yourself. And it seems she doesn't enjoy the kids/family life. She probably isn't too fond of OP's brother either.

Of course it’s okay to be away 2 days out of 30

No it’s not selfish to spend 6% of your time away. Conversely she is home 94% of the time.

To this poster: it isn’t 2 of 30 days. The camping trips are 5-10 days each.

To a former poster: she does not work. She doesn’t grocery shop or handle meals or bedtimes. Her primary contribution is managing the schedules. Not driving them just preparing the schedules and arranging for where the kids should be by someone else.

Uhh…are you sure she isn’t having an affair / second life…?

Don’t know. Something that I’ve thought about but would never ask.

So she’s gone basically half of the month?
How in touch / reachable is she on these camping trips??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four kids under 6 is demanding and hard! Not all women are cut out for full-time motherhood. It’s better that she has some outlets and the ability to get away sometimes or she might end up taking out her frustrations on the kids. How much is too much time away — I don’t know. That’s for your brother to work out with his wife. Maybe they should talk to their pediatrician and a marriage counselor before they give up.

It’s ironic that your brother doesn’t want to have the kids full-time, either.

Op said her brother does not want to NOT have the kids everyday. It was a weird way to state it but OP is actually saying her brother DOES want the kids everyday.

You mean her brother doesn’t want the kids in another house while 2 live i d and his wife care for them.

Is he home all day?
Is he at school enough Mom’s don’t wonder where he is.
Does he never go to work or on work trips or do things with friends on the weekend?

My brother works full time and supports the entire family and help. He is at school, camp, birthday parties, and typically is the parent making a presence at these things. He doesn’t take trips anymore because she is always gone.

I mean, first of all, it's none of your business.

Second of all - did he not realize after child number 1, or 2, or 3, that his wife needed time away from the family so either he was going to have to deal with that, or stop having more kids with her?

I think he thought she would be open to his feedback and dial back when he explicitly asked, both of which she is not.

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of men and wives here who mention that their husbands don’t care for the baby / toddler years and are relatively uninvolved. I don’t think this is that unusual for a wealthy family. Do you have the same amount of wealth as them? Your post comes across as very jealous of her.

And if your family members are feeling “burdened” then you could advise them to set boundaries and let them know adhoc child care will not be possible.

Can I ask how it sounds jealous? I haven’t said anything about my situation which could be the same or better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with being raised by nannies. This country is strange because there is such little family and community support. So instead we buy this help.

It is very hard raising young kids but not doing so is these parents’ loss. I had such hard times with a newborn and a toddler but wouldn’t trade that for the world: they are some of my fondest memories.

I can’t imagine 4 little ones so close in age. Must be overwhelming for her. It’s good she has hired help.

Don’t be so dramatic. This mom 1) takes one camping trip a month 2) has a very part time summer volunteer job 3) works out a lot.

She’s raising her kids. She’s just also taking reasonable time away for herself.

I am a SAHM of young kids and very much in favor of SAHPs taking time away for themselves. But the amount of time OP's SIL is spending away from the kids/family seems pretty excessive. You think it's OK for her to be gone 1/4 weekends a year for non-necessary/leisure travel? That's pretty self-centered as a parent of young kids to take that much time for yourself. And it seems she doesn't enjoy the kids/family life. She probably isn't too fond of OP's brother either.

Of course it’s okay to be away 2 days out of 30

No it’s not selfish to spend 6% of your time away. Conversely she is home 94% of the time.

To this poster: it isn’t 2 of 30 days. The camping trips are 5-10 days each.

To a former poster: she does not work. She doesn’t grocery shop or handle meals or bedtimes. Her primary contribution is managing the schedules. Not driving them just preparing the schedules and arranging for where the kids should be by someone else.

Uhh…are you sure she isn’t having an affair / second life…?

Don’t know. Something that I’ve thought about but would never ask.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing wrong with being raised by nannies. This country is strange because there is such little family and community support. So instead we buy this help.

It is very hard raising young kids but not doing so is these parents’ loss. I had such hard times with a newborn and a toddler but wouldn’t trade that for the world: they are some of my fondest memories.

I can’t imagine 4 little ones so close in age. Must be overwhelming for her. It’s good she has hired help.

Don’t be so dramatic. This mom 1) takes one camping trip a month 2) has a very part time summer volunteer job 3) works out a lot.

She’s raising her kids. She’s just also taking reasonable time away for herself.

I am a SAHM of young kids and very much in favor of SAHPs taking time away for themselves. But the amount of time OP's SIL is spending away from the kids/family seems pretty excessive. You think it's OK for her to be gone 1/4 weekends a year for non-necessary/leisure travel? That's pretty self-centered as a parent of young kids to take that much time for yourself. And it seems she doesn't enjoy the kids/family life. She probably isn't too fond of OP's brother either.

Of course it’s okay to be away 2 days out of 30

No it’s not selfish to spend 6% of your time away. Conversely she is home 94% of the time.

To this poster: it isn’t 2 of 30 days. The camping trips are 5-10 days each.

To a former poster: she does not work. She doesn’t grocery shop or handle meals or bedtimes. Her primary contribution is managing the schedules. Not driving them just preparing the schedules and arranging for where the kids should be by someone else.

Uhh…are you sure she isn’t having an affair / second life…?

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this seems normal for very well-off families? I have an acquaintance who grew up rich in a developing country, dad traveled for work a lot, mom traveled for leisure a lot or just did her own thing, sometimes taking the kids sometimes not, and the nannies/housekeepers/driver etc. took care of the day to day.

This.

Anonymous wrote:Team brother. You shouldn't have kids if you don't enjoy spending most of your free time with them, in my opinion.

He's stuck, unfortunately. He might as well try to enjoy his life fully before he gets too old.

+1 she shouldn't have had 4 kids. This was a choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four kids under 6 is demanding and hard! Not all women are cut out for full-time motherhood. It’s better that she has some outlets and the ability to get away sometimes or she might end up taking out her frustrations on the kids. How much is too much time away — I don’t know. That’s for your brother to work out with his wife. Maybe they should talk to their pediatrician and a marriage counselor before they give up.

It’s ironic that your brother doesn’t want to have the kids full-time, either.

Op said her brother does not want to NOT have the kids everyday. It was a weird way to state it but OP is actually saying her brother DOES want the kids everyday.

You mean her brother doesn’t want the kids in another house while 2 live i d and his wife care for them.

Is he home all day?
Is he at school enough Mom’s don’t wonder where he is.
Does he never go to work or on work trips or do things with friends on the weekend?

My brother works full time and supports the entire family and help. He is at school, camp, birthday parties, and typically is the parent making a presence at these things. He doesn’t take trips anymore because she is always gone.

I mean, first of all, it's none of your business.

Second of all - did he not realize after child number 1, or 2, or 3, that his wife needed time away from the family so either he was going to have to deal with that, or stop having more kids with her?