Anonymous
07/13/2023 15:08
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Where do BCC and Syracuse land? Does the Big 12 really take Pitt and Louisville? Does the Big10 actually want UVA and UNC? Does the SEC actually want VT? I think Miami and GT are the best positioned and that FSU and Clemson think they are well positioned. Assuming that UNC is sure about the Big10 offer, that's 5 that have a definite landing spot that is an upgrade (or at least believe that they have one).
I think the B1G would take:
UVA
UNC
Ga Tech
Miami
The SEC would take:
Clemson
FSU
VaTech
NC St(?)
Leaving:
BC
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest
Louisville
Pitt
The Big 12 would surely take some, but I imagine BC, Duke, and WF would be the most vulnerable to not having a seat.
But 13 more years of the majority of the ACC not making what they could get in the SEC/B1G seems untenable.
That's 6 schools that are definitely vulnerable. I think NC State, VT and UVA should fall into that camp as well. They are not as vulnerable, but there are no guarantees either. I also think Clemson is being either naive; the only time that the SEC has let in a school in the same state as a current member is Texas and Texas is a much bigger market then South Carolina. Regardless, taking your 6 plus some combination of NCST, VT, and UVA is enough votes to keep the ACC together for football.
This is the point of my post above. There is no way out of the rights contract. It is iron clad. They can look all they want and they can try to sue to break out but there is no basis. Indeed suing to break out is a violation of the agreement that would leave them open to damages if they lost.
The only way out is for all of the schools to agree. You need all of them. You can try to buy schools out. 100 million to Pitt over four years. You could help them try to get to a second tier but good conference by grouping what was left. But Duke and BC don't need the money and they want a top tier conference. You would have to buy them off with a Big10 or SEC slot. Otherwise ACC is stuck as it is.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:54
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame isn't part of the grant of rights.
That certainly helps if true. However, Notre Dame did agree that if Notre Dame football joins a conference that the conference must be the ACC. Legally there should be a way out for Notre Dame (might violate antitrust laws, for example).
Notre Dame has nothing to do with the ACC tv deal. Notre Dame gets paid a lot of money by NBC to have their games air on NBC. That TV contract not the ACC gor is the impediment to Notre Dame joining the Big 10
The NBC / Notre Dame TV deal is not an impediment as it expires soon (expires "after 2024").
The impediment for Notre Dame is Notre Dame's promise to join the ACC if its football team joins a conference.
It's important if the Big 10 can't offer ND more than NBC
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:53
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame isn't part of the grant of rights.
That certainly helps if true. However, Notre Dame did agree that if Notre Dame football joins a conference that the conference must be the ACC. Legally there should be a way out for Notre Dame (might violate antitrust laws, for example).
Notre Dame has nothing to do with the ACC tv deal. Notre Dame gets paid a lot of money by NBC to have their games air on NBC. That TV contract not the ACC gor is the impediment to Notre Dame joining the Big 10
The NBC / Notre Dame TV deal is not an impediment as it expires soon (expires "after 2024").
The impediment for Notre Dame is Notre Dame's promise to join the ACC if its football team joins a conference.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:52
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Where do BCC and Syracuse land? Does the Big 12 really take Pitt and Louisville? Does the Big10 actually want UVA and UNC? Does the SEC actually want VT? I think Miami and GT are the best positioned and that FSU and Clemson think they are well positioned. Assuming that UNC is sure about the Big10 offer, that's 5 that have a definite landing spot that is an upgrade (or at least believe that they have one).
I think the B1G would take:
UVA
UNC
Ga Tech
Miami
The SEC would take:
Clemson
FSU
VaTech
NC St(?)
Leaving:
BC
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest
Louisville
Pitt
The Big 12 would surely take some, but I imagine BC, Duke, and WF would be the most vulnerable to not having a seat.
But 13 more years of the majority of the ACC not making what they could get in the SEC/B1G seems untenable.
That's 6 schools that are definitely vulnerable. I think NC State, VT and UVA should fall into that camp as well. They are not as vulnerable, but there are no guarantees either. I also think Clemson is being either naive; the only time that the SEC has let in a school in the same state as a current member is Texas and Texas is a much bigger market then South Carolina. Regardless, taking your 6 plus some combination of NCST, VT, and UVA is enough votes to keep the ACC together for football.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:49
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame isn't part of the grant of rights.
That certainly helps if true. However, Notre Dame did agree that if Notre Dame football joins a conference that the conference must be the ACC. Legally there should be a way out for Notre Dame (might violate antitrust laws, for example).
Notre Dame has nothing to do with the ACC tv deal. Notre Dame gets paid a lot of money by NBC to have their games air on NBC. That TV contract not the ACC gor is the impediment to Notre Dame joining the Big 10
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:45
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Important to remember that neither the SEC nor the Big Ten need to expand beyond 16 teams.
Nonetheless, the Big Ten Conference is very likely to expand to 18 teams soon with the expected addition of the Pac-12's Oregon and Washington which make the travel burden for USC & UCLA a bit less time consuming. As of today, Nebraska is the closest Big Ten member school to USC & UCLA.
An advantage to both the SEC & to the Big Ten Conference is that expansion to mega-conference status (20 to 24 teams per conference) might eliminate the need--or ability--for NCAA oversight of the football programs.
Nonetheless, the Big Ten Conference is very likely to expand to 18 teams soon with the expected addition of the Pac-12's Oregon and Washington which make the travel burden for USC & UCLA a bit less time consuming. As of today, Nebraska is the closest Big Ten member school to USC & UCLA.
An advantage to both the SEC & to the Big Ten Conference is that expansion to mega-conference status (20 to 24 teams per conference) might eliminate the need--or ability--for NCAA oversight of the football programs.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:32
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Where do BCC and Syracuse land? Does the Big 12 really take Pitt and Louisville? Does the Big10 actually want UVA and UNC? Does the SEC actually want VT? I think Miami and GT are the best positioned and that FSU and Clemson think they are well positioned. Assuming that UNC is sure about the Big10 offer, that's 5 that have a definite landing spot that is an upgrade (or at least believe that they have one).
I think the B1G would take:
UVA
UNC
Ga Tech
Miami
The SEC would take:
Clemson
FSU
VaTech
NC St(?)
Leaving:
BC
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest
Louisville
Pitt
The Big 12 would surely take some, but I imagine BC, Duke, and WF would be the most vulnerable to not having a seat.
But 13 more years of the majority of the ACC not making what they could get in the SEC/B1G seems untenable.
Great post.
Penn State versus U Pittsburgh used to be a major football rivalry. But Big Ten members Ohio State & Penn State probably do not want to let U Pitt in on the recruiting action in the region.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:17
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Where do BCC and Syracuse land? Does the Big 12 really take Pitt and Louisville? Does the Big10 actually want UVA and UNC? Does the SEC actually want VT? I think Miami and GT are the best positioned and that FSU and Clemson think they are well positioned. Assuming that UNC is sure about the Big10 offer, that's 5 that have a definite landing spot that is an upgrade (or at least believe that they have one).
I think the B1G would take:
UVA
UNC
Ga Tech
Miami
The SEC would take:
Clemson
FSU
VaTech
NC St(?)
Leaving:
BC
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest
Louisville
Pitt
The Big 12 would surely take some, but I imagine BC, Duke, and WF would be the most vulnerable to not having a seat.
But 13 more years of the majority of the ACC not making what they could get in the SEC/B1G seems untenable.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:02
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame isn't part of the grant of rights.
That certainly helps if true. However, Notre Dame did agree that if Notre Dame football joins a conference that the conference must be the ACC. Legally there should be a way out for Notre Dame (might violate antitrust laws, for example).
Anonymous
07/13/2023 14:02
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Where do BCC and Syracuse land? Does the Big 12 really take Pitt and Louisville? Does the Big10 actually want UVA and UNC? Does the SEC actually want VT? I think Miami and GT are the best positioned and that FSU and Clemson think they are well positioned. Assuming that UNC is sure about the Big10 offer, that's 5 that have a definite landing spot that is an upgrade (or at least believe that they have one).
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:59
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame isn't part of the grant of rights.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:56
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Maybe Notre Dame is the key as to whether or not there is a viable exit option for ACC member schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Notre Dame plays ice hockey in the Big Ten and Notre Dame football is quasi-independent in that it has agreed to only play 5 ACC football opponents per year and NBC, not ESPN, has the TV media rights to any & all regular season Notre Dame home football games. Lots of exceptions to ACC membership for Notre Dame.
Boston College plays ice hockey in the Hockey East all ice hockey conference.
Is more of a legal contractual matter than a sports issue.
The school with the most to lose if the ACC crumbles is probably Wake Forest University, then Duke & NC State (all of which are located in North Carolina).
Notre Dame probably needs to make the first move as it has the loosest relationship with the ACC among the 15 schools.
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:43
Subject: What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A couple of points:
If the Big10 added ND -- there would indeed be a renegotiation of the TV deal. That is in the agreement -- any member gains or losses trigger a renegotiation
I don't see ND joining the Big10 unless the ACC implodes which it might. The rights deal keeps the ACC together unless the schools vote to end the deal. The SEC wants a bunch of schools but those schools are not enough to undue the rights deal. I could see a set of schools looking to leave the ACC for the SEC and a set of schools looking to leave the ACC for the Big10. Then payments to the others plus conference homes for them. That would undue the rights deal. I then think ND joins the Big10 although in that case the SEC will make them an offer.
But the Big10 and the SEC will have to take more of the ACC schools than they each want. I do not think they have to take all but between them they will need to take 11-12 of the ACC schools leaving only 3-4 with cash ad other conferences.
BC, Duke, and Louisville would need SEC or Big10 homes or they would never agree. I think Pitt, Wake, Syracuse could be bought off. Maybe Louisville. BC and Duke don't care about the money only the conference.
How long before that ACC GOR becomes simply intolerable for the schools (FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC) that would almost certainly be snatched up by the B1G/SEC. Tens of millions of dollars lost every year…
It can be intolerable to FSU and Clemson, but if the majority of schools are looking at the AAC or Sun Belt they aren't voting to dissolve the GOR. Syracuse, Wake, Duke, and BC aren't doing better than the ACC. Pitt and Louisville would have an outside shot at the Big 12 if it decides to radically expand, but probably not both. Likewise, NC State, and VT know they are probably screwed and UVA is probably BiG10 or bust, but does the Big10 really want them? In 2035, the ACC probably disbands, but until then the bulk of the members have no incentive to placate FSU or Clemson
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:39
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
There are 15 current ACC member schools:
Univ. of Pittsburgh
Wake Forest University
Florida State University
UNC
Louisville
Boston College
Syracuse
Clemson
Virginia Tech
Virginia
NC State
Georgia Tech
U Miami
Duke
Notre Dame
https://si.com/2023/05/17/acc-florida-state-clemson-leaving-what-happens-next
Univ. of Pittsburgh
Wake Forest University
Florida State University
UNC
Louisville
Boston College
Syracuse
Clemson
Virginia Tech
Virginia
NC State
Georgia Tech
U Miami
Duke
Notre Dame
https://si.com/2023/05/17/acc-florida-state-clemson-leaving-what-happens-next
Anonymous
07/13/2023 13:15
Subject: Re:What Would It Take For Notre Dame Football To Join The Big Ten or The SEC ?
Several articles have reported that 7 ACC schools have looked for a way out of the league.
From May 16,2023:
https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2023/05/16/report-7-acc-schools-looking-into-potentially-exiting-the-conference/
From May 16,2023:
https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2023/05/16/report-7-acc-schools-looking-into-potentially-exiting-the-conference/