Anonymous
07/03/2023 22:41
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.
I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.
That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.
yeah- when those discussions were going on I was a bright eyed optimistic immersion kindergarten parent. Since then I have become much more cynical and realistic about immersion and many other things. Some of it is school quality- the other MASSIVE part of this is that immersion is really not a good fit for a bunch of kids. Another huge factor is the number of parents who choose immersion b/c something about the location of elementary school worked for them (or were avoiding an undesirable elementary school)- but are not really at all committed to it.
It's not even as simple as whether immersion is a good fit. I have a kid who loves learning Spanish and who is quite good at it, but who may also want IB. It's not crazy for her to choose for her to continue Spanish outside of APS and to focus on other education priorities after elementary. That doesn't discount the Spanish she's already learned. It also doesn't mean that she wouldn't stick with immersion if she could do it with IB. Life is full of choices.
Personally I'd love if immersion middle school moved to a MS that tracked to WL and immersion HS moved to WL (which is projected to have room). That would give my kid the most options and it's centrally located. But it's obviously not up to me.
I'm glad it's not up to you. I don't think moving HS immersion to WL is a good idea. That is clearly a plan that somehow benefits you, and only by giving your kid the most options? That's the basis for this idea? It's a program. It tracks to wherever the program is. It has nothing to do with what school it's located in; so I don't understand why that's even part of your thinking. Besides, part of Kenmore tracks to Wakefield, anyway. You would just prefer taking it away from Wakefield?
WL already is and will be the largest high school. It already has the IB program. Why should it also house the immersion program (other than to give your kid and others at WL "the most options" - which I would argue your WL child already has, btw)?
Anonymous
07/03/2023 19:31
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The move to Kenmore has also been pushed for by strong immersion supporters because they feel Kenmore is closer to the bulk if the Spanish population in Arlington. This was the same reason there was talk of switching the ES immersion program to Carlin Springs.
There was a strong push against moving to Carlin Springs among many CIS families when they were trying to push this proposal through.
I think the bigger push was from Carlin Springs ES. That's a strong community and they didn't want to become an immersion school.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 19:00
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:
The move to Kenmore has also been pushed for by strong immersion supporters because they feel Kenmore is closer to the bulk if the Spanish population in Arlington. This was the same reason there was talk of switching the ES immersion program to Carlin Springs.
There was a strong push against moving to Carlin Springs among many CIS families when they were trying to push this proposal through.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 16:55
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?
I've been asking this too - will this change things for the non-immersion crowd at Kenmore?
Native Spanish speakers would have the option of taking Spanish classes.
Is that true? Because I don’t think that’s the case at the HS level.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 14:58
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?
I've been asking this too - will this change things for the non-immersion crowd at Kenmore?
Native Spanish speakers would have the option of taking Spanish classes.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 13:53
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?
I've been asking this too - will this change things for the non-immersion crowd at Kenmore?
Anonymous
07/03/2023 13:32
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.
I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.
That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.
yeah- when those discussions were going on I was a bright eyed optimistic immersion kindergarten parent. Since then I have become much more cynical and realistic about immersion and many other things. Some of it is school quality- the other MASSIVE part of this is that immersion is really not a good fit for a bunch of kids. Another huge factor is the number of parents who choose immersion b/c something about the location of elementary school worked for them (or were avoiding an undesirable elementary school)- but are not really at all committed to it.
It's not even as simple as whether immersion is a good fit. I have a kid who loves learning Spanish and who is quite good at it, but who may also want IB. It's not crazy for her to choose for her to continue Spanish outside of APS and to focus on other education priorities after elementary. That doesn't discount the Spanish she's already learned. It also doesn't mean that she wouldn't stick with immersion if she could do it with IB. Life is full of choices.
Personally I'd love if immersion middle school moved to a MS that tracked to WL and immersion HS moved to WL (which is projected to have room). That would give my kid the most options and it's centrally located. But it's obviously not up to me.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 13:23
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?
I think it’s a non-issue as long as it doesn’t mean they take a lot of the higher SES planning units out of the Kenmore boundary to make room for the program. I think they shouldn’t redo the Kenmore boundary by much, unless and until the new location proves itself as more desirable, necessitating more seats. I remember when they talked about moving immersion previously, and they didn’t think it required a simultaneous boundary tweak. Kenmore is still below capacity, so seems like they shouldn’t need to move many or any PUs at this time, especially since we have no idea how this will affect people’s plans for immersion in MS.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 13:04
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.
I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.
That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.
yeah- when those discussions were going on I was a bright eyed optimistic immersion kindergarten parent. Since then I have become much more cynical and realistic about immersion and many other things. Some of it is school quality- the other MASSIVE part of this is that immersion is really not a good fit for a bunch of kids. Another huge factor is the number of parents who choose immersion b/c something about the location of elementary school worked for them (or were avoiding an undesirable elementary school)- but are not really at all committed to it.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 12:44
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.
I have no basis for my opinion which is: distance does have an impact on the decision to continue in immersion into middle school; however, the real or perceived difference in quality of middle schools likely has a bigger impact. The distance is an easy excuse for more northern Arlington families to not even contend with the decision. If immersion were truly that important to them, more of them would continue on despite the distance.
That said, moving the program closer to a location more accessible SHOULD result in more families (from the north) remaining in the program. If it does not, then the "cover" of "distance" is blown and it's really more about the actual middle schools. It will also be interesting to see if families in the SE part of the County - close to Gunston - show a drop in rentention to middle school because of the distance to Kenmore. I doubt quality of the schools would be the issue, since Kenmore, TJ, and Gunston are pretty similar.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 12:36
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
No- this proposal came 'out' of the immersion community. Go back in time to 2017 or so- it was along the time that they changed the way the admissions went for the immersion program- advocates formed a group that was supposed to be like the Montessori Action Committee- it was intended to advocate for immersion and strengthening the immersion program, and reducing the dropout rate. The parent community strongly advocated at that time to move the MS program to Kenmore, saying that the major reason people left immersion was distance to Gunston. The School Board was considering it- but the teachers objected, and the idea died. I think the committee died too- it kind of got sidelined by the moving Key wildfires.
Anonymous
07/03/2023 09:33
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Is this good or bad for Kenmore (for the non-immersion crowd)?
Anonymous
07/02/2023 19:05
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This move makes sense to me. Kenmore has the highest concentration of EL students of all the APS middle schools, so it provides a higher level of native speakers. I also wonder if moving the program there and then shifting general populations north would allow split feeders like Ashlawn (currently split about 60/40 to Kenmore/Swanson) and Glebe to all be assigned to single middle schools. If all of Ashlawn went to Swanson and all of Glebe went to Hamm it would be better for the community to stay together.
It’s still splitting Ashlawn between Swanson and Kenmore and Glebe between Swanson and Hamm. Looks like its splitting off more of Barrett to Swanson. That’s the part I find odd.
Not sure about the other schools, but the Glebe contingent going to Swanson will be really small under this proposal. APS should just send them all to Hamm. I'm in favor of the elementary schools being kept together as much as possible, especially when they would just split back to W-L after middle school anyway.
Anonymous
07/02/2023 12:29
Subject: Immersion program may leave gunston
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is APS using this as a way to hurry along the attrition rate to remove the immersion program at the middle school age?
I’ve wondered that too. Last year they reduced the incoming kindergarten classes from 4 to 6 at Claremont. Kindergarten has always been filled in the past when there were 6 classes so there was a plenty of interest in the program. But now that APS reduced the incoming classes they’ve effectively reduced the whole program size.
No. They reduced the incoming class size at Claremont because the school was becoming unsafe to operate at the current student population. They didn't even have adequate room for kids to take shelter for weather emergencies. They were struggling with assemblies because they couldn't fit kids all together in the cafeteria. They had lunch from 10am to 1pm. It has nothing to do with not wanting to shrink the program and more to do with keeping the program a manageable size that ensured the quality of education and safety of students. It was pushed for by some of the strongest immersion supporters I know.
The move to Kenmore has also been pushed for by strong immersion supporters because they feel Kenmore is closer to the bulk if the Spanish population in Arlington. This was the same reason there was talk of switching the ES immersion program to Carlin Springs.
Anonymous
07/02/2023 11:55
Subject: Re:Immersion program may leave gunston
From a program standpoint, it’s better to keep immersion at Gunston. It’s doing great where it is. For logistics, Kenmore is infinitely more convenient, even if people look at a map and convince themselves otherwise. For those of us driving these routes daily, the inconvenience factor of Gunston is not trivial.