Anonymous
06/29/2023 13:19
Subject: Re:How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree. At our pool I have never seen a line up that didn’t have the fastest kids swimming events.
The only time this doesn't happen is when you have an swimmer in a younger age group (usually the 8U) who is 100% legal in all strokes (and by association usually a very good freestyler) and they need that kid to swim all the other strokes to actually get points/places because there aren't enough other kids in the roster who are 100% legal. Then because of MCSL 3 event max even though the kid might be one of the top 6 freestyle they won't swim that. Beyond that, yes, 100% fastest kids.
Hmmm. We are in NVSL so we swim 2 events at A meets. If you have a kid who is top 1-3 in all four events, sometimes they’ll move that kid around to swim their lower ranked events based on seed times from the other team. It SHOULD be done to maximize team points, but it can lead to questions. This is why transparency is best—parents can see why their kid isn’t swimming in their best events, and coaches and reps have an incentive to stay honest.
For example: Larla swims to the top spots in free and back, but is second in breast and third in fly. Her coach might put her in free and fly if the back times from the other team are slow, and her fly time might score an extra point for the team. It gets dicey if Larla’s time is close to her competition in back and she gets edged out of a relay or divisional slot because she didn’t get to swim it at that meet.
Basically, it’s best for coaches and reps to treat people like adults and not try to hide anything—they may have to explain things but that’s part of the job.
These are the types of machinations I don’t have a problem with for summer swim since it’s a team competition based on points. If Larla’s individual back time was close but not better than the time needed for a relay or divisional slot, who is to say she would have lowered her time if she had swum it at one of the meets she didn’t swim it at. What should never happen though is some kid that is say 3rd on the ladder getting passed over not because they are needed to swim a different stroke but because the 4th kid is the rep’s kid.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 12:52
Subject: Re:How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Agree. At our pool I have never seen a line up that didn’t have the fastest kids swimming events.
The only time this doesn't happen is when you have an swimmer in a younger age group (usually the 8U) who is 100% legal in all strokes (and by association usually a very good freestyler) and they need that kid to swim all the other strokes to actually get points/places because there aren't enough other kids in the roster who are 100% legal. Then because of MCSL 3 event max even though the kid might be one of the top 6 freestyle they won't swim that. Beyond that, yes, 100% fastest kids.
Hmmm. We are in NVSL so we swim 2 events at A meets. If you have a kid who is top 1-3 in all four events, sometimes they’ll move that kid around to swim their lower ranked events based on seed times from the other team. It SHOULD be done to maximize team points, but it can lead to questions. This is why transparency is best—parents can see why their kid isn’t swimming in their best events, and coaches and reps have an incentive to stay honest.
For example: Larla swims to the top spots in free and back, but is second in breast and third in fly. Her coach might put her in free and fly if the back times from the other team are slow, and her fly time might score an extra point for the team. It gets dicey if Larla’s time is close to her competition in back and she gets edged out of a relay or divisional slot because she didn’t get to swim it at that meet.
Basically, it’s best for coaches and reps to treat people like adults and not try to hide anything—they may have to explain things but that’s part of the job.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 10:54
Subject: Re:How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Agree. At our pool I have never seen a line up that didn’t have the fastest kids swimming events.
The only time this doesn't happen is when you have an swimmer in a younger age group (usually the 8U) who is 100% legal in all strokes (and by association usually a very good freestyler) and they need that kid to swim all the other strokes to actually get points/places because there aren't enough other kids in the roster who are 100% legal. Then because of MCSL 3 event max even though the kid might be one of the top 6 freestyle they won't swim that. Beyond that, yes, 100% fastest kids.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 07:10
Subject: Re:How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Agree. At our pool I have never seen a line up that didn’t have the fastest kids swimming events.
Good for your pool. but I’m more inclined to think you haven’t looked closely at every single match up. There are definitely ways to game things to advantage certain swimmers for things like relay spots and points that are not immediately obvious if you don’t have access to seed times from opposing teams.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 06:56
Subject: Re:How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Agree. At our pool I have never seen a line up that didn’t have the fastest kids swimming events.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 06:07
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
Are you really that naive? I can give you countless examples of where that was not the case.
Anonymous
06/29/2023 04:42
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
This is one of my favorite things about swimming, the clock doesn’t lie and kids have a pure objective standard (times/champs cuts, etc.) they are working toward that isn’t impacted by whether Larla’s dad is the coach or Karla is the coach’s favorite. Not being transparent about seed times and the swimmers’ placement on the ladder undercuts all that.
I think we should refer to it as a top times report. The ladder is what grannies use to exit the pool. You shouldn’t need to circulate the ladder. It’s bolted into the pool deck
You can call it whatever you like! But ladder is a popular enough word for it that is not going away, even if it’s new to you.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 23:51
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
This is one of my favorite things about swimming, the clock doesn’t lie and kids have a pure objective standard (times/champs cuts, etc.) they are working toward that isn’t impacted by whether Larla’s dad is the coach or Karla is the coach’s favorite. Not being transparent about seed times and the swimmers’ placement on the ladder undercuts all that.
I think we should refer to it as a top times report. The ladder is what grannies use to exit the pool. You shouldn’t need to circulate the ladder. It’s bolted into the pool deck
Anonymous
06/28/2023 23:50
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
Incompetence is always a factor. As is pressure from certain parents.
PP here. This is exactly what happened. Young, immature coach who didn’t even know my kids name plus parental pressure from parents who were very involved in the team. Add on that I was clueless.
The coach was replaced by an adult and everything is completely transparent now.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 21:37
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
This is one of my favorite things about swimming, the clock doesn’t lie and kids have a pure objective standard (times/champs cuts, etc.) they are working toward that isn’t impacted by whether Larla’s dad is the coach or Karla is the coach’s favorite. Not being transparent about seed times and the swimmers’ placement on the ladder undercuts all that.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 20:06
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
Incompetence is always a factor. As is pressure from certain parents.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 17:28
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
And also fiction. Coaches want to win. They swim the fastest kid.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 17:25
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
That’s terrible.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 16:29
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
Anonymous wrote:It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.
I agree. Circa 2018 we had different coaching staff that didn’t circulate a ladder or meet results and with a new 8U I had no idea that results for A meets were posted online. Therefore when my kid beat 35 other kids in freestyle at a B meet I had no idea they should swim in the next A meet. A couple years later I saw the results in historical data in the new app. They were seeded 3rd fastest in free and never got picked for an A meet.
Fortunately everything is transparent now.
Anonymous
06/28/2023 15:39
Subject: How to choose events for summer dual meets？
It is weird. And people that are saying “parents ask too many questions” are sus IMO.