Anonymous
Post 06/21/2023 11:57     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Read the external review of the AAP program. Recommendation 2c on page 42:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf


GBRS scores are more-strongly associated with a student being found eligible for Level IV services
than NNAT or CogAT scores. For example, if two students have identical CogAT and NNAT scores,
but one student had a higher GBRS score, that student has twice the odds of being found Level IV
eligible. Compare this to two students who have identical NNAT and GBRS scores, but one student
has a higher CogAT-Q subscale score. Despite that higher CogAT-Q score, the two students still have
the same odds of being found Level IV eligible. Based on the provided data, GBRS scores are more influential of Level IV eligibility decisions than are scores on the CogAT or NNAT. If GBRS scores are
not a valid measure of student potential and/or achievement or they are inflated because of
parental influence or fear of parental reprisal, then their influence on Level IV eligibility is negative.
However, if GBRS scores capture some information that is essential in locating which students will
benefit most from Level IV services, then their inclusion and influence are positive. Based on existing
information, there is no way for the review team to know with any degree of certainty that the
scores on the GBRS is a valid indicator of eligibility for gifted services.
Anonymous
Post 06/19/2023 18:56     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:OP here-

We did not badger the teacher please don't assume otherwise. We were only looking for constructive feedback to know how GBRS is accessed so that we GET it right for grade 3 and the teacher spoke well. Clearly, GBRS is the single most important criterion for AAP and this is an AAP forum. The kid is heartbroken because his friends are moving to a different school.
Who gives the GBRS rating? Perhaps I was not clear in my original post about DC's 2nd-grade teacher and said he was not the one who gave the GBRS rating, but the AART teacher is pointing the finger at the 2nd-grade teacher. GBRS commentary clearly says the child is performing above grade level yet the score is only FO, surely the evaluator (teacher or AART) must have known the consequences of this rating? We are confused. Is this a case where the teacher says nice things to your face but privately gives a bad rating in GBRS? Why is there a taboo in discussing GBRS with teachers? Why is FCPS and local school not more transparent about this?
Regarding prepping: I don't know about others but DC went completely unprepped to WISC evaluation because we were genuinely curious.


Let me guess... are the teacher's initials M.V.? We had a similar experience where DC got straight FOs, yet 99th percentile on WISC (unprepped, for the record). I'm willing to accept that DC might not be ready for AAP just yet (we think they are, but we are also confident they will do well regardless of placement), however the the GBRS was so unprofessionally done that I really can't believe that was what was submitted. I am wondering if all the GBRS that this teacher was involved in were all of equally low quality and effort.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 16:51     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:I mean, that report also suggests significantly reducing the weight of parent referrals, eliminating parent-provided work samples, and making successful appeals more infrequent.


The report basically suggests everything is wrong with the current AAP admission process but it’s not really clear what the solutions are.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 16:14     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
I mean, that report also suggests significantly reducing the weight of parent referrals, eliminating parent-provided work samples, and making successful appeals more infrequent.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 14:03     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:GBRS is going away next year. Then you all can find something else to complain about. Jeff should charge admission fees for this forum. He’d make a mint.


Interesting. Is there a posting to the FCPS site about this change to do away with the GBRSs?


Read the external review of the AAP program. Recommendation 2c on page 42:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf


There are a lot of recommendations in here. Do you know from a reliable source in FCPS that GBRS is really out nxt year?


FCPS is implementing some of these recommendations (AAP in every ES and MS, local norms, for example) but many of them are impractical, unrealistic, or intended to solve other problems.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 12:06     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:GBRS is going away next year. Then you all can find something else to complain about. Jeff should charge admission fees for this forum. He’d make a mint.


Interesting. Is there a posting to the FCPS site about this change to do away with the GBRSs?


Read the external review of the AAP program. Recommendation 2c on page 42:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf


There are a lot of recommendations in here. Do you know from a reliable source in FCPS that GBRS is really out nxt year?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 11:49     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:GBRS is going away next year. Then you all can find something else to complain about. Jeff should charge admission fees for this forum. He’d make a mint.


Interesting. Is there a posting to the FCPS site about this change to do away with the GBRSs?


Read the external review of the AAP program. Recommendation 2c on page 42:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 11:15     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
I'll add a fun GBRS anecdote. My kid who had 140+ on the WISC and CogAT, was 3 grade levels above on iready math and 2 on iready reading, was reading Percy Jackson novels in 2nd grade and was already taking AAP math with a higher grade level got low scores for motivation and creativity.

One of the comments in the motivation section was that my kid was a strong writer when he was willing to write, but had a weak pencil grip and was often reluctant to write as much as he could. Basically, the teacher thought my kid wasn't motivated enough for AAP since he wouldn't push through the physical pain of writing. I'm sure the AAP selection panel had a good chuckle/eyeroll over that one.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 10:51     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The test scores are really not a great indicator of how well your child would do in aap. They are age normed. So while your child may do better than a child the same age (born the same month), they may still be far behind the kids in their grade. They also can be easily prepped.

I think teachers know who can keep up with the advanced pace in level iv and who cannot. Parents don’t see the day to day in the classroom. The kids who understand the material immediately, do their work, and then help other kids figure it out are the ones ready for the advanced material. The kids who need one on one help from the teacher would really slow a level iv class down. It is fluid though, so while a child is not ready in 3rd, they may be ready in 4th.

But test scores can’t show that. So gbrs are really important. Unless you would like level iv to have to slow down for the kids who still need a lot of handholding.


I'm a secondary school teacher. Very few kids who have been passing advanced on the SOLs since elementary school struggle in AAP at the middle school level. Same thing with kids who score high on CogAt and NNAT. Has anyone ever studied the validity of the GBRS?

One of the recommendations in the AAP equity report was to get rid of the GBRS because it isn't a psychometrically valid instrument. There are other giftedness profile tools out there that are considered valid, but all of them are much more comprehensive and much more focused on academic ability rather than guessing a kid's creativity or motivation levels.

In my experience, the kids who needed the handholding and the slowing down of the curriculum were the ones who had the high GBRS and lower test scores.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 09:19     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:The test scores are really not a great indicator of how well your child would do in aap. They are age normed. So while your child may do better than a child the same age (born the same month), they may still be far behind the kids in their grade. They also can be easily prepped.

I think teachers know who can keep up with the advanced pace in level iv and who cannot. Parents don’t see the day to day in the classroom. The kids who understand the material immediately, do their work, and then help other kids figure it out are the ones ready for the advanced material. The kids who need one on one help from the teacher would really slow a level iv class down. It is fluid though, so while a child is not ready in 3rd, they may be ready in 4th.

But test scores can’t show that. So gbrs are really important. Unless you would like level iv to have to slow down for the kids who still need a lot of handholding.


I'm a secondary school teacher. Very few kids who have been passing advanced on the SOLs since elementary school struggle in AAP at the middle school level. Same thing with kids who score high on CogAt and NNAT. Has anyone ever studied the validity of the GBRS?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 09:14     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:GBRS is going away next year. Then you all can find something else to complain about. Jeff should charge admission fees for this forum. He’d make a mint.


Interesting. Is there a posting to the FCPS site about this change to do away with the GBRSs?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 08:40     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Heartily agree. You have to get in there and advocate for your child - politely, of course. At the start of second grade make sure you are asking about what the teacher is doing to challenge your child. Make sure you are sharing the exceptional things your child is doing at home (in a casual way, don't be obnoxious). Ask what else you can be doing to help your child reach their potential, and if the teacher says "nothing they are doing fine," push back and say "that's great, but our child really is ready for a challenge." Ask to talk to the teacher periodically, they are busy, but a 10-15 minute meeting once a month is reasonable.

Also talk to the AART early and cover a lot of the same as above with them.

Our child did not get in on the first try, but did get in on appeal. Our child had great scores, but the GBRS were lackluster. The teacher really had no idea what is going on in our child's brain because they are quiet and non-disruptive, and we had like one 10 minute chat with the teacher that first half of second grade. Well there is a lot going on in our child's mind! We covered those activities and behaviors robustly in the appeal cover letter and had our child sit down and do new work samples at home (did not rely on school stuff). We basically explained why the GBRS were a very incomplete picture of why our child needs AAP. We overcame the GBRS, but lord if I could go back a year, I would do things totally differently.


Did you see the thread about teacher turnover? This parent is a big problem for the future of our schools. Don’t be this parent.


I don’t know. It seems reasonable to have conversations with the teacher about how to make sure your gifted child meets their potential in the classroom. As a parent of a very intelligent but quiet child this is essential. Maybe every other month I check in. This seems very reasonable, and it is a great opportunity to ensure the teachers and parents approach education as a team.

If you are worried about turn over, advocate for higher pay. I don’t think shutting parents out is the answer.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 08:27     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
GBRS is going away next year. Then you all can find something else to complain about. Jeff should charge admission fees for this forum. He’d make a mint.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 08:19     Subject: Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
The test scores are really not a great indicator of how well your child would do in aap. They are age normed. So while your child may do better than a child the same age (born the same month), they may still be far behind the kids in their grade. They also can be easily prepped.

I think teachers know who can keep up with the advanced pace in level iv and who cannot. Parents don’t see the day to day in the classroom. The kids who understand the material immediately, do their work, and then help other kids figure it out are the ones ready for the advanced material. The kids who need one on one help from the teacher would really slow a level iv class down. It is fluid though, so while a child is not ready in 3rd, they may be ready in 4th.

But test scores can’t show that. So gbrs are really important. Unless you would like level iv to have to slow down for the kids who still need a lot of handholding.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2023 08:08     Subject: Re:Why does FCPS for giving highest weightage to GBRS and discard all other standardized tests?
Anonymous wrote:Heartily agree. You have to get in there and advocate for your child - politely, of course. At the start of second grade make sure you are asking about what the teacher is doing to challenge your child. Make sure you are sharing the exceptional things your child is doing at home (in a casual way, don't be obnoxious). Ask what else you can be doing to help your child reach their potential, and if the teacher says "nothing they are doing fine," push back and say "that's great, but our child really is ready for a challenge." Ask to talk to the teacher periodically, they are busy, but a 10-15 minute meeting once a month is reasonable.

Also talk to the AART early and cover a lot of the same as above with them.

Our child did not get in on the first try, but did get in on appeal. Our child had great scores, but the GBRS were lackluster. The teacher really had no idea what is going on in our child's brain because they are quiet and non-disruptive, and we had like one 10 minute chat with the teacher that first half of second grade. Well there is a lot going on in our child's mind! We covered those activities and behaviors robustly in the appeal cover letter and had our child sit down and do new work samples at home (did not rely on school stuff). We basically explained why the GBRS were a very incomplete picture of why our child needs AAP. We overcame the GBRS, but lord if I could go back a year, I would do things totally differently.


Did you see the thread about teacher turnover? This parent is a big problem for the future of our schools. Don’t be this parent.