What it means to be liberal is always changing, so you have to understand what that means to you and which beliefs are the most important to you. There are some “liberal” positions which are just as knee-jerk and lacking in critical evaluation as many “conservative” ones. I don’t hold them in high esteem for a friend or a partner.

So, I value left-leaning principles of universal healthcare, a woman’s right to choose, the role of the state is not to earn corporations profits, the US is wealthy enough to have a decent safety net, who and how you love is no one’s business but your own, if two grown adults wish to marry each other, they should be allowed to, and limits on guns are reasonable and responsible. So does my former Marine partner, who by pretty much any definition is quite manly. There have been some positions on this thread that have been put forth as necessary to be “liberal” that we both roll our eyes at, but we’re pretty comfortable with where we are, and we recognize regurgitated propaganda when we see it, from the right or the left.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man I find this really weird. I thought she was going to talk about other qualities besides holding open the car door. It seems like she wants to be treated like a princess and yeah, what kind of man treats women like princesses? A man who thinks that women are property to be married off in order to form strategic political alliances. JK, a conservative man. This cannot be a shocker to her.

My husband is masculine in that he has a deep voice and a strong build and this really charismatic personality, and I'm a SAHM so yeah, he "cares for me and provides for me" (man that sounds gross). But he doesn't open my car door and he daydreams about the day I make it big and he quits his job.

It would be very difficult to get this thread to agree on what constitutes masculinity. I think there is vaguely enough understanding of these cultural norms to have a conversation, but clarify if appropriate.

For example, for me "charisma" is in no way a masculine characteristic. I feel that men and women are equally charismatic overall and that society recognizes this. At the same, I respect your opinion and don't think you are wrong!

Ha you’re right. I was going to say “dominant” instead of charismatic but that’s just sounds weird! I don’t know how to describe it, but I truly think that anybody who interacts with him would call him masculine. Then again, he doesn’t open my doors or get a kick out of being the sole earner so I guess others might disagree!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

That’s because it’s more acceptable in the progressive sphere to have illiberal views as a minority but not as a white guy. Exhibiting tribal behavior where you put your own ethnic group before others is considered masculine behavior but is also something that will immediately get a white guy labeled as a conservative, or worse a white nationalist, but if a minority is unapologetically pro-whatever group-they-belong-to it’s okay. So white guys who want to be accepted by the left have to go out of their way to appear as unthreatening and ashamed of their ethnicity as possible, which makes them look like p***ies.

Minorities can easily get away with illiberal views like not being accepting of gays, or against feminism, but morons think they’re liberal because they vote democrat (which they mainly do to advance their own racial interests, not because they are accepting of LGBT, etc)

Well said and as a Black man I agree with many of the points you have made. However, Black men with illiberal views are now being pressured by other righteous minorities to “follow the line”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

That’s because it’s more acceptable in the progressive sphere to have illiberal views as a minority but not as a white guy. Exhibiting tribal behavior where you put your own ethnic group before others is considered masculine behavior but is also something that will immediately get a white guy labeled as a conservative, or worse a white nationalist, but if a minority is unapologetically pro-whatever group-they-belong-to it’s okay. So white guys who want to be accepted by the left have to go out of their way to appear as unthreatening and ashamed of their ethnicity as possible, which makes them look like p***ies.

Minorities can easily get away with illiberal views like not being accepting of gays, or against feminism, but morons think they’re liberal because they vote democrat (which they mainly do to advance their own racial interests, not because they are accepting of LGBT, etc)

is this just a long-winded way of saying you’re racist, and you know it, and you don’t care?

Anonymous wrote:Man I find this really weird. I thought she was going to talk about other qualities besides holding open the car door. It seems like she wants to be treated like a princess and yeah, what kind of man treats women like princesses? A man who thinks that women are property to be married off in order to form strategic political alliances. JK, a conservative man. This cannot be a shocker to her.

My husband is masculine in that he has a deep voice and a strong build and this really charismatic personality, and I'm a SAHM so yeah, he "cares for me and provides for me" (man that sounds gross). But he doesn't open my car door and he daydreams about the day I make it big and he quits his job.

It would be very difficult to get this thread to agree on what constitutes masculinity. I think there is vaguely enough understanding of these cultural norms to have a conversation, but clarify if appropriate.

For example, for me "charisma" is in no way a masculine characteristic. I feel that men and women are equally charismatic overall and that society recognizes this. At the same, I respect your opinion and don't think you are wrong!

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

That’s because it’s more acceptable in the progressive sphere to have illiberal views as a minority but not as a white guy. Exhibiting tribal behavior where you put your own ethnic group before others is considered masculine behavior but is also something that will immediately get a white guy labeled as a conservative, or worse a white nationalist, but if a minority is unapologetically pro-whatever group-they-belong-to it’s okay. So white guys who want to be accepted by the left have to go out of their way to appear as unthreatening and ashamed of their ethnicity as possible, which makes them look like p***ies.

Minorities can easily get away with illiberal views like not being accepting of gays, or against feminism, but morons think they’re liberal because they vote democrat (which they mainly do to advance their own racial interests, not because they are accepting of LGBT, etc)

Yeah my first thought was you must be talking about white men!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

Well, that is why it is about white guys. There are very few black conservatives, regardless of masculinity

That's not why it's about white guys.

-NP

Man I find this really weird. I thought she was going to talk about other qualities besides holding open the car door. It seems like she wants to be treated like a princess and yeah, what kind of man treats women like princesses? A man who thinks that women are property to be married off in order to form strategic political alliances. JK, a conservative man. This cannot be a shocker to her.

My husband is masculine in that he has a deep voice and a strong build and this really charismatic personality, and I'm a SAHM so yeah, he "cares for me and provides for me" (man that sounds gross). But he doesn't open my car door and he daydreams about the day I make it big and he quits his job.

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

Well, that is why it is about white guys. There are very few black conservatives, regardless of masculinity

I know plenty of Black men that are conservative. Most are business owners. I'd say they are also masculine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a liberal, masculine white guy married to a liberal woman. Couples like us are not hard to find. I guess OP doesn't live in the DC area.

It sounds like OP doesn't even live in a small urban area.

Most of the uber masculine conservative guys I know treat women like crap, no buying meals, or opening doors or supporting them financially. They expect the women to do that for them.

This is sort of true in my personal experience. Ex was a conservative and was not chivalrous at all. He did pay for things when we were dating because he made more. Current boyfriend makes slightly less (recently switched fields right before we met and took a pay cut in exchange for experience), pays for everything, is extremely chivalrous and kind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles are always just about white guys. I've never run into this problem dating in the black community.

Agree with this! I don’t actually always like it (I’m not necessarily into masculine men) but all the black guys I’ve dated have been super respectful in the types of ways the article suggests AND staunchly liberal and respectful of other people’s opinions and experiences.

Black men are not liberal though. Maybe the few Ivy League grads hanging around in DC are….My experience with Black men is that they are actually quite conservative not MAGA crazy but they are def not the Manhattan type liberals

Anonymous wrote:I'm a liberal, masculine white guy married to a liberal woman. Couples like us are not hard to find. I guess OP doesn't live in the DC area.

It sounds like OP doesn't even live in a small urban area.

Most of the uber masculine conservative guys I know treat women like crap, no buying meals, or opening doors or supporting them financially. They expect the women to do that for them.

Anonymous wrote:I've dated many Black women in DC who vote for Democrats but are conservative in how they live their lives and privately say all the sht that would lead to a social media pile on.

I've met many black republican women in Virginia.