Anonymous wrote:

I'm getting a whiff of family scapegoating here. When you say two of them "no surprise, they were both easy kids...we have great relationships with them...we respect them,". that's a flashing, neon sign.

The "easy kids" complied with your world view and were rewarded with parental affection, and respect.

The other two...were not...rewarded in the same ways...do not have your respect.

From what you write, it sounds like this parent-child has been a life-long pattern? Each child in a family is assigned a role to play, either consciously or unconsciously, by the parents.

Go research what can happen to family scapegoats when they become adults. It might open your eyes.

Oh good grief. "Family scapegoating??" OP is not to blame for 2 grown men who refuse to take responsibility for their lives. And no, OP does not have to "respect" the poor choices made by the adult sons who have failed to launch. Nor does OP have to "reward" those poor choices. OP can love her sons but love does NOT mean enabling unproductive behaviors.

Anonymous wrote:And that is why I judge families with too many kids to raise properly. Quality over quantity for the win.

Anonymous wrote:Please help them get evaluated for ADHD, and possibly therapy for goal setting/identifying what they want.

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist who specializes in failure-to-launch patients in their 20s. Many of them have personality disorders (especially narcissistic personality disorder) that create difficulties in work and romance.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder basically forces someone's personality to have a "grandiose" self and a "vulnerable" self. This often presents as failure to launch since 20-somethings will have a false sense of grandiosity (since most failure-to-launch cases are still on their parents' payroll and aren't withtaking the proper role of adulthood and financial independence) as well as a fragile sense of vulnerability (many of these failure-to-launch patients had demanding "Tiger" parents who had unrealistically high expectations for their kids and instilled a deep sense of shame in them if they failed to reach said high expectations).

This leads to paralyzing amounts of self-absorbent and self-pity that often prevent launching. I use a form of therapy called Transference-Focused Psychotherapy with my patients to help them develop a realistic sense of self that can withstand the challenges of financial independence, work, and romance. I also incorporate CBT and DBT techniques when helpful as well.

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist who specializes in failure-to-launch patients in their 20s. Many of them have personality disorders (especially narcissistic personality disorder) that create difficulties in work and romance.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder basically forces someone's personality to have a "grandiose" self and a "vulnerable" self. This often presents as failure to launch since 20-somethings will have a false sense of grandiosity (since most failure-to-launch cases are still on their parents' payroll and aren't withtaking the proper role of adulthood and financial independence) as well as a fragile sense of vulnerability (many of these failure-to-launch patients had demanding "Tiger" parents who had unrealistically high expectations for their kids and instilled a deep sense of shame in them if they failed to reach said high expectations).

This leads to paralyzing amounts of self-absorbent and self-pity that often prevent launching. I use a form of therapy called Transference-Focused Psychotherapy with my patients to help them develop a realistic sense of self that can withstand the challenges of financial independence, work, and romance. I also incorporate CBT and DBT techniques when helpful as well.

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist who specializes in failure-to-launch patients in their 20s. Many of them have personality disorders (especially narcissistic personality disorder) that create difficulties in work and romance.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder basically forces someone's personality to have a "grandiose" self and a "vulnerable" self. This often presents as failure to launch since 20-somethings will have a false sense of grandiosity (since most failure-to-launch cases are still on their parents' payroll and aren't withtaking the proper role of adulthood and financial independence) as well as a fragile sense of vulnerability (many of these failure-to-launch patients had demanding "Tiger" parents who had unrealistically high expectations for their kids and instilled a deep sense of shame in them if they failed to reach said high expectations).

This leads to paralyzing amounts of self-absorbent and self-pity that often prevent launching. I use a form of therapy called Transference-Focused Psychotherapy with my patients to help them develop a realistic sense of self that can withstand the challenges of financial independence, work, and romance. I also incorporate CBT and DBT techniques when helpful as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your DH, or you, a narcissist?

Red flag. People who freely use the words “narcissist”, “toxic” or “emotional abuse” have manic depression and/or bipolar tendencies at highly elevated rates.

Anonymous wrote:Is your DH, or you, a narcissist?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from a family of four. Two of us launched easily/successfully. The other two didn't. You know what the difference was? The two kids who struggled had VERY SIGNFICANT mental health and/or cognitive challenges.

Your kids aren't struggling because it's fun - it's more likely that there are other barriers for them, perhaps ones you know about (but maybe ones you don't).

This is true but it still doesn't mean anything goes and the parents are an unlimited piggy bank. My brother was diagnosed and treated for ADHD from elementary school and was like this in his 20s. I get that he needed more help, but expecting your parents to do and pay everything for you *and still* lashing out at them and blaming them for all your problems is not fair and ok. Fortunately he's in a better place in his 30s, but people who are struggling still don't get to treat others like crap.

Try being in his shoes. I come from a family of academically gifted kids excluding one. 5 kids and one had dyslexia. My parents did everything they could to help him but no matter what he always felt less than. He would never choose to have dyslexia. He wasn't a screw up but has money problems. The rest of us did great in college, had great jobs, nice bank accounts and he joined the military. He loved it but could never move up much in rank because no matter what, reading was hell for him. It is hard to grow up and see other people do basic things easily when you can't. From the time you are young everything and everyone tells you or shows you that you are less than. We all were careful to not brag and to support him but our lives can't be denied. He isn't comfortable around us and he doesn't go out of his way to see us. It's sad.