Anonymous
05/04/2023 09:50
Subject: Re:Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:This - the mentally ill roaming the streets - is such an intractable problem. Many on this thread saying they need "help," we should "help" them . . . you need to realize there is nothing that can be done to cure the mental health issues. They are a permanent defect that can't be fixed. Other than restraining them in mental health wards, or forcibly drugging them into zombie-like states, the mentally ill will do what they are going to do. I am speaking as the sister of a schizophrenic here; my parents spent decades and $$ trying to "help" to no avail. It is very sad, but it is a fact, and people need to come to grips with that fact, and decide what measures are warranted to keep the rest of the public safe.
Yes I really struggle with this lately. I have a friend who is essentially slowly killing herself between mental illness and substance abuse. My heart is breaking every day and I have tried everything that I can do. She refuses help, as in she won't even try. I don't know what the answer is. I understand that folks have personal freedom and I don't want to go back 50 plus years when folks were hospitalized for a long time and treated horribly. But I feel like there should be some middle ground, but maybe it isn't possible.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 09:41
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?
This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.
Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.
Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.
I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 09:16
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
He’d been arrested 42 times.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12045021/Eric-Adams-starts-war-words-AOC-Jordan-Neely-death.html
Anonymous
05/04/2023 09:07
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?
This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.
Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.
Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:25
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:The man was mentally ill and had a long history of harassing subway riders and prior arrests. Our mental health system in this country sucks. He should have gotten help long before this ever happened.
The Marine wasn’t trying to kill him, he was trying to restrain him. But how stupid can you be to not realize that holding someone’s neck like that for so long can be fatal. The Marine was attempting to be a hero, and instead he is an idiot who killed someone.
Agree with all of this. I can't believe two other men, including a Black man, were assisting the Marine rather than telling him to stop.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:21
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
I need to learn more facts before making a judgment on the marine. However, I am sad that somebody ended up losing their life. I’m surprised more cell phone video hasn’t come out.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:20
Subject: Re:Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
This - the mentally ill roaming the streets - is such an intractable problem. Many on this thread saying they need "help," we should "help" them . . . you need to realize there is nothing that can be done to cure the mental health issues. They are a permanent defect that can't be fixed. Other than restraining them in mental health wards, or forcibly drugging them into zombie-like states, the mentally ill will do what they are going to do. I am speaking as the sister of a schizophrenic here; my parents spent decades and $$ trying to "help" to no avail. It is very sad, but it is a fact, and people need to come to grips with that fact, and decide what measures are warranted to keep the rest of the public safe.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:10
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Good for the marine. Crazies who threaten law-abiding citizens don’t belong on public transportation, which is a small confined space with no escape path. Unfortunately the Soros-funded DA will charge him with murder. And I doubt he’ll get the same jury that found Goetz not guilty…
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:10
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
The man was mentally ill and had a long history of harassing subway riders and prior arrests. Our mental health system in this country sucks. He should have gotten help long before this ever happened.
The Marine wasn’t trying to kill him, he was trying to restrain him. But how stupid can you be to not realize that holding someone’s neck like that for so long can be fatal. The Marine was attempting to be a hero, and instead he is an idiot who killed someone.
The Marine wasn’t trying to kill him, he was trying to restrain him. But how stupid can you be to not realize that holding someone’s neck like that for so long can be fatal. The Marine was attempting to be a hero, and instead he is an idiot who killed someone.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 08:07
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?
Witnesses in news reports say his behavior was erratic, saying he didn't have food, but that he wasn't threatening to assault anyone, and he didn't assault anyone.
He got into a verbal altercation with Marine, which led to physical. If the Marine had not engaged (just ignore, like everyone else), the mentally ill man would have just continued to be annoying.
Apparently another man got onto the train and told Marine to back off if he didn't want to face murder charge.
I think the Marine was being macho. No lives were in danger. He was not protecting anyone. He was probably annoyed and irritated by the erratic behavior. He wanted to stop it.
DP.. I was on the metro with my DD, and there was a man with a cart, eating a sandwich and talking very loudly to himself. It scared us. Mentally ill people can be unstable. I wouldn't want to risk that such an unstable person attacking someone. IMO, the marine was being proactive, however. I do not know how hard the chokehold was, and whether that is was caused the death, or was it a combination of factors.
We've had way too many instances of mentally unstable people turning violent, some with guns.
The intent of the marine was not murder. I think he was just trying to prevent the guy from possibly hurting someone. I feel badly for both parties. One was an ill person, and the other was just trying to protect people.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:56
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?
Witnesses in news reports say his behavior was erratic, saying he didn't have food, but that he wasn't threatening to assault anyone, and he didn't assault anyone.
He got into a verbal altercation with Marine, which led to physical. If the Marine had not engaged (just ignore, like everyone else), the mentally ill man would have just continued to be annoying.
Apparently another man got onto the train and told Marine to back off if he didn't want to face murder charge.
I think the Marine was being macho. No lives were in danger. He was not protecting anyone. He was probably annoyed and irritated by the erratic behavior. He wanted to stop it.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:50
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?
There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming. This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?
Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:46
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
And this is what happens when you leave mental health and law enforcement in the hands of private citizens. People need to protect themselves and others. It suck this man died but the citizens who stepped up will not be charged, nor should they be.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:37
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:WTF!
Why would this guy choke this man out like this?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/wannabe-vigilante-chokes-homeless-man-jordan-neely-to-death-on-nyc-subway-videos-show?mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Guy did the right thing. This homeless guy should have been locked up or institutionalized. He was a danger to others.
You think he was right to kill him? Literally choke him to death for 15 minutes? That's disgusting.
The marine literally murdered someone with his bare hands and you are calling the homeless guy a danger. Unbelievable.
Citation?
It’s in the subhead of the article in the OP.
It says, "allegedly." What is the actual evidence? The video is cut and starts with the person in the choke hold, so it's pretty much irrelevant. Also, you can breathe in a choke hold if the person's technique is lacking.
No one has been prosecuted or convicted, so of course everything is going to say “allegedly.”
But that won’t stop all you conspiracy theorists from wildly speculating and jumping to conclusions.
The fact remains, however: mentally ill (and often homeless) people are ruining city life all over the US.
Time to bring back a new form (a humane form) of asylum. Just rename it: “compassionate in-patient” care or something.
But get these people the help they need, while getting them away from innocent victims like me and my children, so we can use public transit again.
Anonymous
05/04/2023 07:37
Subject: Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?
He didn’t do anything dangerous
How do you know? We’re you there?