Anonymous wrote:I really like the look and history of the campus itself. The historic Thayer Hotel is pretty interesting, too, overlooking the Hudson. I believe you can take a ferry from right near WP to the Garrison train station in the summer; Garrison is a stop on Metro North that goes to Central Station, Peekskill, Poughkeepsie, etc. The town of West Point itself is kind of a neat little town. With all that said, it would not be the college experience for me, and my DC ended up not applying, but it is an ideal choice for some.

The setting is beautiful, the history is extensive, and the town is charming. Another positive is that classmates are coming from all states. Ultimately, you have to be open to the idea that you have a good chance at being placed in a combat / infantry placement after graduation, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because you will have a fabulous prestigious career with excellent retirement

The pension is a terrible consolation prize when you take into account what 22 y/o CS, consulting, banking, tech etc employees make right out of the gate. Heck supply chain, accounting and similar majors from basic state schools make $75k+ right out of undergrad.

Exactly right. Friend of mine has a son who graduated from a big state school last year and is doing supply chain for about that salary right now.

He wanted to join the Army via OCS but thank God I talked him out of it.

Anonymous wrote:Because you will have a fabulous prestigious career with excellent retirement

Retired colonels and lieutenant colonels are a dime a dozen in this town, and hardly any of them are working prestige jobs.

Anonymous wrote:As someone in the military, I don’t find west pointers to be the best and brightest. Many military officers are not good writers. West Point has a prep academy, and the people who take the prep academy route are largely not the best and brightest. Even if those admitted directly to USMA, the 25-75% test scores have an SAT score between 1200 and 1440 or an ACT score of 28 and 33. That’s not really that high considering the test scores of many students around here.

Well... USMA has a diversity quota just like every other university...

I'm a Naval Academy grad. I loved it and it was one of the best experiences of my life. It also has its downsides. It's definitely not as bad or as crazy as the negative posters here say, nor is it quite as incredible and astounding as the DCUM boosters would have you believe. But it was an incredible four years that I would do all over again.

I didn't stay in past my initial commitment. I'm not a CEO and I don't make $700k. I make $200k in a low-stress, four-day-per week job in a very nice, moderate-cost area. Combined, my wife and I make $300k. She works part time. Our wealth percentile is probably higher than our income percentile. We have about $4M invested, and whatever earnings that generates, I suppose, you could throw on top of our $300k earned income.

One common retort that against military service that you sometimes hear from people who believe themselves and their children to be intellectually superior is some variation of "the best and the brightest should not be killers."

Maybe I kept a ship in position and supervised a process that launched Tomahawk cruise missiles. Am I a killer? Maybe a West Point grad led a platoon or company that engaged in combat. You'd likely say that she was a killer.

But what about the CIA, DIA, Dod, and State Department operatives who chose the targets of the cruise missile? What makes me somehow more of a killer than them? Are those analysts who studied foreign affairs in college somehow less culpable in the killing? Are they not among our best and brightest? What about President Obama and Secretary Clinton who ultimately oversaw the planning and gave the final orders? Bright people? Killers?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone in the military, I don’t find west pointers to be the best and brightest. Many military officers are not good writers. West Point has a prep academy, and the people who take the prep academy route are largely not the best and brightest. Even if those admitted directly to USMA, the 25-75% test scores have an SAT score between 1200 and 1440 or an ACT score of 28 and 33. That’s not really that high considering the test scores of many students around here.

The college experience is terrible. Very competitive with your peers and many socially inept students. The attrition rate is between 15-30%. So many students leave before they finish their first year. Almost no social life. It permitted to be in a closed room with an opposite sex cadet.

Graduates start as 2d lieutenants. The same as direct commissionees. Starting pay is around $50k plus housing allowance. The retirement model has shifted, so lower percentage of pay after 20 years.

DS wanted to apply, and I discouraged him.

You claim to know a lot about WP for someone who did not attend....

NP. The prep school is focused on recruited athletes and former enlisted soldiers. The academics of both are often not up to standards but to West Point's credit -- particularly in their commitment to formerly enlisted soldiers -- they allow these students to spend a year boning up on the basics, to include study habits, etc.

I really like the look and history of the campus itself. The historic Thayer Hotel is pretty interesting, too, overlooking the Hudson. I believe you can take a ferry from right near WP to the Garrison train station in the summer; Garrison is a stop on Metro North that goes to Central Station, Peekskill, Poughkeepsie, etc. The town of West Point itself is kind of a neat little town. With all that said, it would not be the college experience for me, and my DC ended up not applying, but it is an ideal choice for some.

Anonymous wrote:As someone in the military, I don’t find west pointers to be the best and brightest. Many military officers are not good writers. West Point has a prep academy, and the people who take the prep academy route are largely not the best and brightest. Even if those admitted directly to USMA, the 25-75% test scores have an SAT score between 1200 and 1440 or an ACT score of 28 and 33. That’s not really that high considering the test scores of many students around here.

The college experience is terrible. Very competitive with your peers and many socially inept students. The attrition rate is between 15-30%. So many students leave before they finish their first year. Almost no social life. It permitted to be in a closed room with an opposite sex cadet.

Graduates start as 2d lieutenants. The same as direct commissionees. Starting pay is around $50k plus housing allowance. The retirement model has shifted, so lower percentage of pay after 20 years.

DS wanted to apply, and I discouraged him.

You claim to know a lot about WP for someone who did not attend....

Anonymous wrote:Cadets are not required to join active military. Those that do go in with a high rank. Some go into reserves. Some choose to go into med school.

Their education is free and they are guaranteed employment with a minimum of $75k after graduation.

They have so much discipline that any company would hire them.

A former manager attended West Point, he was active military for a few years; entered the reserves, and has a Harvard MBA. He’s fit. Super smart and at 45 makes about $700k.

The "cadet" you describe is not a West Point Cadet. Perhaps you are thinking of a cadet with the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets or at VMI. For those, you are not required to join the active military. West Point is completely different. Once they graduate, they are obligated to serve 5 years of active duty. A very small handful may get into the med school program, and others may do a post grad scholarship like Rhodes or Fulbright. But the overwhelming number of graduates go right into active duty ad the rank of second lieutenant, which is actually the lowest commissioned rank, and by no means includes a "minimum" of $75K after graduation.

Do agree that any company would hire them, and that many do get MBAs/JDs at top tier schools, and that the old grads I've known are super fit and super smart.

Anonymous wrote:Because you will have a fabulous prestigious career with excellent retirement

The pension is a terrible consolation prize when you take into account what 22 y/o CS, consulting, banking, tech etc employees make right out of the gate. Heck supply chain, accounting and similar majors from basic state schools make $75k+ right out of undergrad.

Some people like military life style.

Check out a job fair specifically for service academy grads that have fulfilled their service commitment.

Because you will have a fabulous prestigious career with excellent retirement

As someone in the military, I don’t find west pointers to be the best and brightest. Many military officers are not good writers. West Point has a prep academy, and the people who take the prep academy route are largely not the best and brightest. Even if those admitted directly to USMA, the 25-75% test scores have an SAT score between 1200 and 1440 or an ACT score of 28 and 33. That’s not really that high considering the test scores of many students around here.

The college experience is terrible. Very competitive with your peers and many socially inept students. The attrition rate is between 15-30%. So many students leave before they finish their first year. Almost no social life. It permitted to be in a closed room with an opposite sex cadet.

Graduates start as 2d lieutenants. The same as direct commissionees. Starting pay is around $50k plus housing allowance. The retirement model has shifted, so lower percentage of pay after 20 years.

DS wanted to apply, and I discouraged him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our best and brightest should not be killers. Hard stop.

“Hard stop?” What are you, 12?

Our best and brightest should be leaders and sometimes that means leading the fight against evil. Sorry that is news to you.

“Evil” is a matter of perpective. Full stop.

Very true!