Anonymous
04/10/2023 14:13
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
+1 million
We built a crappy late stage capitalist society.
I'll throw in another million.
In many ways my younger chid - who is elementary school age - has a lot more freedom than my high school child does, because when she was 9/10 years old, I was home all day during the height of the pandemic. Since so many parents in our neighborhood were working from home, and she was at the sweet spot in age where she was old enough to do things alone, but young enough to still need some general supervision, we actually rebuilt a lot of those neighborhood connections as parents formed coops, agreed to keep an eye out on the kids, texted who was bike riding with whom and where.
So now, even as life is basically back to normal, she and her other 11 year old friends are allowed to bike ride through the neighborhood in a way that the older kids weren't at that age.
It's actually one of the biggest silver linings to 2020-21.
Anonymous
04/10/2023 14:06
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
Don’t blame lack of community on others. If you want it, you have to find it and/or form it. We have a community in our neighborhood and most of the parents work. We prioritize connecting and supporting each other. Maybe it’s not common to find but it’s not because women work.
And many women worked back in the 70s/80s. Latchkey kids and all. We still had community.
Misogynistic excuses to blame women.
Kids aren’t out as much anymore because they are over scheduled with organized sports and activities. Then, in the remaining free time they get sucked into additive gaming/streaming without commercials/firehoses of video shorts.
It’s hard to build a community with people who are never around. Not blaming it on women - frankly it is because we don’t value the things that women have traditionally done. This is why we don’t have enough day care providers, nurses, teachers, PT and OT professionals and the myriad other caring professions in which we depend. We have not recognized nor compensated them adequately. I don’t blame women for looking elsewhere but there’s a societal cost to that which we are now seeing.
Anonymous
04/10/2023 14:03
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
This is succinctly written, and (unfortunately) correct.
-working mom by the way
I was wandering our neighborhood in early elementary. I knew if something happened and my mom wasn’t home (she was a SAH) I knew like 8 other parents in our neighborhood who I felt comfortable knocking on their doors and asking for help. My parents weren’t even that good of friends, and kids ranged from 5 to 17, and we all knew each other and knew families. We only lived in that neighborhood for 3 years, so these weren’t people we had known forever.
Before 5th grade I moved to another city and I roamed about 1 square mile on my bike or on foot. I don’t know so many families, but there always seemed to be someone out in their yard or walking their dog, and that made me feel safe.
I also did lots of stupid stuff but it gave me confidence and built self-reliance. Grownups were around but we usually tried to solve it ourselves.
I think it also mattered that everywhere we loved before the DMV had sidewalks. We live in Bethesda and there are so few sidewalks. I’m not letting my kids roam until they are mature enough to realize that cars are not looking out for them,
NP and agreed, about the network of parents (moms, really) at home back then and also the sidewalks. We make a point with our kids of identifying which neighbors live where, whom they could go to if something happens on the walk to school, etc. But it’s very different now in that way.
Anonymous
04/10/2023 12:48
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:I would never try to minimize anyone's experiences or anything that the6ve give through. And I do think some of the safety standards and practices we now have are necessary, but I do think we lean a little too far in the other direction. Kids/teens don't have hardly any freedom anymore and largely supervised/organized, simultaneously somehow still with too much screen time. I do think they're missing out.
+1 We are pretty relaxed and followed neighborhood norms to keep kids supervised through ES but let them have a lot of freedom to bike/walk around the neighborhood with friends starting in middle school. During ES, the best thing about aftercare was that, except for the occasional structured class the kids wanted to do, it was a big, daily, unstructured play time. Yes adults were around nominally supervising but for the most part it was up to the kids to figure out what they were going to play and it was all grades together.
Anonymous
04/10/2023 12:32
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
I played outside a lot with no adult supervision, sometimes wandering off into the woods or walking a mile up to friend's house to play, and I was born in the 90s. Kids today are missing out.
Anonymous
04/10/2023 10:24
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
I used to get in problems being alone outside. Doing rebel stuff.kids should not be alone. There are bad people everywhere, your uncle, neighbor, priest, anybody
Anonymous
04/09/2023 21:29
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
This is succinctly written, and (unfortunately) correct.
-working mom by the way
I was wandering our neighborhood in early elementary. I knew if something happened and my mom wasn’t home (she was a SAH) I knew like 8 other parents in our neighborhood who I felt comfortable knocking on their doors and asking for help. My parents weren’t even that good of friends, and kids ranged from 5 to 17, and we all knew each other and knew families. We only lived in that neighborhood for 3 years, so these weren’t people we had known forever.
Before 5th grade I moved to another city and I roamed about 1 square mile on my bike or on foot. I don’t know so many families, but there always seemed to be someone out in their yard or walking their dog, and that made me feel safe.
I also did lots of stupid stuff but it gave me confidence and built self-reliance. Grownups were around but we usually tried to solve it ourselves.
I think it also mattered that everywhere we loved before the DMV had sidewalks. We live in Bethesda and there are so few sidewalks. I’m not letting my kids roam until they are mature enough to realize that cars are not looking out for them,
Anonymous
04/09/2023 21:04
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
This is succinctly written, and (unfortunately) correct.
-working mom by the way
Anonymous
04/09/2023 18:15
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Why do people wax nostalgic about the free roaming good ole days? Tons of really awful crap happened to us. I want better. for me kid.
I don't think that people are trying to minimize or wax nostalgic anything. I'm sorry if awful things happened to your or anyone you knew, but that didn't happen to everyone and were jus sharing experiences and why we think things have changed so much. Yes, safety is important, but I wouldn't say kids have it better at all.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:51
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
I would never try to minimize anyone's experiences or anything that the6ve give through. And I do think some of the safety standards and practices we now have are necessary, but I do think we lean a little too far in the other direction. Kids/teens don't have hardly any freedom anymore and largely supervised/organized, simultaneously somehow still with too much screen time. I do think they're missing out.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:39
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When moms started all working, daycares exploded. Kids were no longer raised at homes. This happened after the 90’s. Two spouses worked to support the family.
All of these developments disgust me.
You’re a disgusting misogynist.
But they aren’t incorrect. The ability of children to roam freely was partially dependent on the fact that communities were communities. People knew each other, socialized and helped each other. This community was largely built and maintained by women. Even in the latchkey families there was the knowledge that there were other people around in whom they could depend. When more women started working that community was weakened. If I fell off my bike a mile from my house, I could go to Mrs. jones who would clean me up and call my mom. When the bus didn’t show, there was a mom or dad going by who would have all the kids pile in and drive them to school. When we walked to school the older kids looked out for the younger. One of the biggest losses is the cross gender/age play that we had. You add in a bit of hysteria, new laws about kids being supervised, competition and no one home, you get what we have now. The kids aren’t ok. The parents aren’t ok.
I know several people who were either molested or sexually assaulted as free range kids, most in these "cross gender/age play" situations. They all lived in close "communities" and knew their abusers. I've never met anyone who was abused by a stranger. I know it happens, but it's rare. Stop romanticizing this.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:38
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Most people trust their children enough, they just don’t trust other adults at ALL. When I was a child, we more or less hung out with friends and whatever adults were around. Have you read this forum? Parents barely trust the people they pay to watch their children, all strangers are basically potential child molesters. Sometime around the Catholic Church scandals and talk radio, people looked around and said hey what the hell is going on with the adults in this world? And that’s when they stopped letting Larla ride her bike to the park.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:37
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:I was born 1970 and free ranged my semi rural Massachusetts neighborhood during my early childhood and my suburban Arizona neighborhood during my middle childhood and teen years. My parents were born in the early and late 30s so their parenting mindset was formed by that context. My father roamed the streets of the south Bronx in the 30s and 40s where he likely formed the opinion that kids are resilient.
The interesting thing about this conversation and how things have changed for kids is that stranger abductions of children and stranger sexual assaults/molestations of children are still exceedingly rare, as they have always been. People became terrified by a few missing kid/murdered kid stories and playing outside became a thing of the past for far too many kids. Then cable television, home computers and video game systems locked a lot of kids into the couch potato lifestyle and parents enabled it because it’s easy. The long term effects on the mental health and physical health of kids must be obvious to us all now - exercise and time in nature are both critical to emotional and physical well being and many kids are getting little if any of each, hence mental health and suicide crises facing our kids.
If you look at the stats on who is perpetrating against our kids and who is abducting most of them - it’s family members and people in positions of authority whom we trust who are doing the vast majority of crimes against our kids and our kids are just as vulnerable to that kind of crime as they were when they also rode their bikes and ran around playing outside. It’s sad. I wouldn’t want to be a kid today.
I agree. So many people say it is a different world today... but statistically it is actually safer.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:31
Subject: Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:I feel like growing up here, sometime around 1999/2000. I started to see less kids out alone and by the time I had my own kids, it was nearly unheard of to let your child hangout and ride their bikes around town. There were news stories about children free range in this area into the 2010s.
What year would you say things changed?
When you became helicopter parents and playdates became the norm as opposed to kids in the neighborhood hanging out together and playing. When parents stopped teaching their kids independence and having nannies for 12 year olds.
Anonymous
04/09/2023 17:27
Subject: Re:Looking back, when did things change? When did we stop letting kids wander freely outside?
Anonymous wrote:I was born in ‘69. I grew up near Murch. We weren’t allowed to wander freely in my childhood.
I think a lot of what people think of as generational change on this is actually class change. People who grew up middle class and are now UMC follow UMC norms which are more restrictive.
-1 I lived in Marin County, which was arguably one of the richest in the country. We wandered around all day; if someone’s mom gave them a few dollars, we bought candy at the closest 7-11. We also got a lot injuries from questionable stunts attempted on our bikes. This is totally a generational thing.