Anonymous
04/03/2023 20:42
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
Um, by all accounts, he actually was hard-working and talented – he didn’t just land on the United States Supreme Court by accident. Same could be said for Trump – sure he started on third base, but by any measure was nonetheless very accomplished (galvanizing half the country to become POTUS, hello??).
Born on third and working hard are not mutually exclusive.
The point is don't lie. If you got help say so.
What is "help" though? I didn't grow up well off but my parents were immigrants and instilled in me self-motivation and the desire to hard work.
So do I still deserve what I got because of that? I worked hard but they made it "easy" for me because they gave me that mindset.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Do hard-working poor people deserve to be poor?
If they had a bunch of kids out of wedlock with no money to support them…
So you can basically ensure the kids, who did not Choose this, will continue along the same path of poverty? I for one would like to help the kids and give them a path out of persistent poverty, having kids that are not planned, and give them a brighter future.
People who are capable of getting out generally do get out. We're now in, what, the third generation of extensive outreach into inner cities and dysfunctional rural areas and yet the same problems continue to persist. That doesn't mean we should suspend the outreach we have and become indifferent but we should also be realistic and have a frank understanding of the limitations too and not impose binaries.
It does seem like many progressive hold a stubborn outlook that everyone is capable of and deserves an upper middle class prosperity as a minimum and if you don't have it then somehow it's due to forces beyond your control. While it's true it's definitely an obstacle to be born in certain deprived circumstances, what are you really "owed" by society beyond access to basic housing and schooling and sustenance? You can't take someone from Anacostia or the hills of West Virginia and turn them into successful people simply by removing all barriers, whatever those might be. The Move to Opportunity under Obama has had minimal long term impact for individual outcomes beyond destabilizing working class suburbs. But even so I can continue to support the policy as breaking up areas of entrenched poverty is better, but once basic opportunities are provided, it really is up to the individual to make the most of it. Take DC. There are so many opportunities right in the district, even in DC schools, and programs to support job training and internships. But there's only so much that can be done and we still have a stubborn demographic that does not seem capable of advancing themselves no matter what.
Upper middle class prosperity? Umm how about shelter, Equal access to education, food, and medical care? Holy crap….DCUM really is full of supposedly extremely smart but yet so profoundly ignorant people.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 20:37
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an UMC family, private education, elite colleges, and yes, I worked extremely hard for what I have now.
Why are you bothered by it?
I can also tell you, from watching my peers grow up, regardless of background those who worked the hardest also got the most out of life. I can also tell, from my professional background, the amount of work people put into their career has a direct relationship with their successes.
Life is not and will never be fair. It's not fair some people seem to suffer more easily from addiction. It's not fair some families have terrible abuse problems. It's not fair to be born to limited circumstances without ingrained knowledge how to make the most out of your decisions. It's not fair to born with limited aptitude. But what does it have to do with other people's successes and accomplishments? Why should I be blamed for it, somehow, or be told to check my privilege? Such a thing is actually distinctly unfair.
The sooner you realize this and stop making judgments and blaming others and making peace with your own situation, the better off you will be. It is not really my problem other people are not successful nor more than it is a problem there are others much more financially successful than I am. Broadly speaking, most people end up with an outcome that does largely correspond with the actions of their decisions and their capabilties. No one is not a senior vice president at a major corporation because of institutional racism or structural dysfunctionalism in whatever. We just have a culture of grievance that has too many people thinking somehow they are oppressed and their failures are can be blamed on others.
You exemplify the cluelessness OP is talking about PP. I don’t think OP is bothered by the unfairness but rather that people don’t own up to the fact that they already started out life way ahead of most people.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 20:27
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
What's annoying are people who loudly broadcast how they just "had" to quit their jobs for whatever reason (hand to brow) without acknowledging that this requires money!! It's not just some courageous choice - it's a privilege flex.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 16:12
Subject: People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Most people don't even recognize their privilege.
My husband and I bought our first home in late 2020. In preparing for that, a friend asked me how much gift money we were getting from our parents. I snorted. My parents still don't own their own home and they are in their 70s! DH's parents live in a trailer in their poor, small midwestern farming town.
I told her we were responsible for the full down payment on our own, which is why it had taken us so long to purchase our first home. She was floored. "Even if they can't gift you the full amount allowed, they can't spare even $5k?" She was also shocked to learn that the home she'd visited several times was a rental. "I really thought you owned your house. I mean, it's so well kept up which is not usually the case with rentals. Most renters don't give a damn about the space, you know?"
She said other totally out-of-touch things, too. "I can't believe you guys have been wasting money on rent for all these years!" "Didn't you learn that you should purchase your first home by 35 so that it is paid off by 65? It's critical!"
My husband and I bought our first home in late 2020. In preparing for that, a friend asked me how much gift money we were getting from our parents. I snorted. My parents still don't own their own home and they are in their 70s! DH's parents live in a trailer in their poor, small midwestern farming town.
I told her we were responsible for the full down payment on our own, which is why it had taken us so long to purchase our first home. She was floored. "Even if they can't gift you the full amount allowed, they can't spare even $5k?" She was also shocked to learn that the home she'd visited several times was a rental. "I really thought you owned your house. I mean, it's so well kept up which is not usually the case with rentals. Most renters don't give a damn about the space, you know?"
She said other totally out-of-touch things, too. "I can't believe you guys have been wasting money on rent for all these years!" "Didn't you learn that you should purchase your first home by 35 so that it is paid off by 65? It's critical!"
Anonymous
04/03/2023 15:44
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
I went to “terrible” schools (gs 2/10). In reality, I’m not sure what was considered “terrible” about them and there were plenty of opportunities to avail yourself to. Free high school sports that weren’t difficult to get involved in, on-site pool, 10 AP classes, free sports physicals, universal free lunches, free onsite immunizations, free uniforms blah blah. I don’t feel hindered in any way. Kids in many countries would sell their body parts to go to the schools I did.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 15:40
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:A first time homebuyer in 2023 with modest family help was born on first base compared to a middle class boomer without help buying 20+ years ago.
Totally depends on location.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 15:38
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
A first time homebuyer in 2023 with modest family help was born on first base compared to a middle class boomer without help buying 20+ years ago.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 15:31
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
Um, by all accounts, he actually was hard-working and talented – he didn’t just land on the United States Supreme Court by accident. Same could be said for Trump – sure he started on third base, but by any measure was nonetheless very accomplished (galvanizing half the country to become POTUS, hello??).
Born on third and working hard are not mutually exclusive.
The point is don't lie. If you got help say so.
What is "help" though? I didn't grow up well off but my parents were immigrants and instilled in me self-motivation and the desire to hard work.
So do I still deserve what I got because of that? I worked hard but they made it "easy" for me because they gave me that mindset.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Do hard-working poor people deserve to be poor?
If they had a bunch of kids out of wedlock with no money to support them…
So you can basically ensure the kids, who did not Choose this, will continue along the same path of poverty? I for one would like to help the kids and give them a path out of persistent poverty, having kids that are not planned, and give them a brighter future.
I for one, would like to reward good parents & punish bad parents.
So you are for "punishing the kids or bad parents"? The kid had nothing to do with selecting their parents. If we provide some interventions, much higher chance those kids break the trend and become successful adults.
Very sad you feel that way.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 15:20
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
Um, by all accounts, he actually was hard-working and talented – he didn’t just land on the United States Supreme Court by accident. Same could be said for Trump – sure he started on third base, but by any measure was nonetheless very accomplished (galvanizing half the country to become POTUS, hello??).
Born on third and working hard are not mutually exclusive.
The point is don't lie. If you got help say so.
What is "help" though? I didn't grow up well off but my parents were immigrants and instilled in me self-motivation and the desire to hard work.
So do I still deserve what I got because of that? I worked hard but they made it "easy" for me because they gave me that mindset.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Do hard-working poor people deserve to be poor?
If they had a bunch of kids out of wedlock with no money to support them…
What if they didn't? You can't honestly think that's the only reason people are poor. There are people who work incredibly hard -- multiple jobs, jobs that involve physical labor -- and they don't get ahead because when you live on the edge, all the normal setbacks of life are amplified. People want to believe that they "deserve" what they have, and that if other people have less, it must be because that's what they "deserve." But life isn't fair, and sometimes bad people get ahead and sometimes good people fall behind and sometimes mediocre people fail upwards, and the advantages of life aren't evenly distributed.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:45
Subject: People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Eek. Op, if you are really this negative, you should get a lot of therapy asap.
Oh deer.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:43
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
Um, by all accounts, he actually was hard-working and talented – he didn’t just land on the United States Supreme Court by accident. Same could be said for Trump – sure he started on third base, but by any measure was nonetheless very accomplished (galvanizing half the country to become POTUS, hello??).
Born on third and working hard are not mutually exclusive.
The point is don't lie. If you got help say so.
What is "help" though? I didn't grow up well off but my parents were immigrants and instilled in me self-motivation and the desire to hard work.
So do I still deserve what I got because of that? I worked hard but they made it "easy" for me because they gave me that mindset.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Do hard-working poor people deserve to be poor?
If they had a bunch of kids out of wedlock with no money to support them…
So you can basically ensure the kids, who did not Choose this, will continue along the same path of poverty? I for one would like to help the kids and give them a path out of persistent poverty, having kids that are not planned, and give them a brighter future.
People who are capable of getting out generally do get out. We're now in, what, the third generation of extensive outreach into inner cities and dysfunctional rural areas and yet the same problems continue to persist. That doesn't mean we should suspend the outreach we have and become indifferent but we should also be realistic and have a frank understanding of the limitations too and not impose binaries.
It does seem like many progressive hold a stubborn outlook that everyone is capable of and deserves an upper middle class prosperity as a minimum and if you don't have it then somehow it's due to forces beyond your control. While it's true it's definitely an obstacle to be born in certain deprived circumstances, what are you really "owed" by society beyond access to basic housing and schooling and sustenance? You can't take someone from Anacostia or the hills of West Virginia and turn them into successful people simply by removing all barriers, whatever those might be. The Move to Opportunity under Obama has had minimal long term impact for individual outcomes beyond destabilizing working class suburbs. But even so I can continue to support the policy as breaking up areas of entrenched poverty is better, but once basic opportunities are provided, it really is up to the individual to make the most of it. Take DC. There are so many opportunities right in the district, even in DC schools, and programs to support job training and internships. But there's only so much that can be done and we still have a stubborn demographic that does not seem capable of advancing themselves no matter what.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:42
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
I've been privileged to have a lot of help from my parents and ILs, and it is the norm in my social circle. I don't know anyone who pretends they built it all from nothing, but it's also not normal to go around talking about how you afforded something. Who talks like that? How would it even come up? Frankly I'd think it was really boastful and gaudy if someone casually dropped that their family gave them 100k or whatever.
The other reason I think people talk about their hard work is that we see many of our peers who were 'born on third' piss away their parents' money and blow opportunities with gluttony and laziness. The PP who talked about how you fared compared to your peers is onto something. If most people you know were gifted a downpayment, and you and your spouse are both physician specialists while your siblings or cousins are unemployed on a beach in Costa Rica or working part time, you're going to credit your hard work with paying for the rest of that mortgage. Were you privileged? Obviously. Did you work hard? Also yes.
The other reason I think people talk about their hard work is that we see many of our peers who were 'born on third' piss away their parents' money and blow opportunities with gluttony and laziness. The PP who talked about how you fared compared to your peers is onto something. If most people you know were gifted a downpayment, and you and your spouse are both physician specialists while your siblings or cousins are unemployed on a beach in Costa Rica or working part time, you're going to credit your hard work with paying for the rest of that mortgage. Were you privileged? Obviously. Did you work hard? Also yes.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:36
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
To be fair, he actually did? Perfect GPA at Georgetown Prep, 17x/180 LSAT score, 3.7+ Yale GPA, editor of Yale Law Journal.
And quite an accomplished diarist, to boof.
Lemme just say that a 3.7 at Yale is a joke. I didn’t work all that hard at Yale and ended up with a higher GPA. It was even easier when he was in school.
And he also got to be the editor of the Yale Law Journal because that's super easy, too?
I am a liberal democrat, and it's just asinine to suggest that the man isn't very smart and accomplished. It makes you look small and petty.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:25
Subject: People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:I wish people were just transparent about how they come by their good fortune. No, you did not buy a mansion on a nonprofit salary due to hard work. Just own it!!
Just own the fact that you're trying to live a trust fund lifestyle without the trust fund, and by working at a nonprofit you're refusing to earn it yourself too.
Anonymous
04/03/2023 14:08
Subject: Re:People who are born on third yet act like they worked "so hard" for something
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh: I worked my @ass off!
Um, by all accounts, he actually was hard-working and talented – he didn’t just land on the United States Supreme Court by accident. Same could be said for Trump – sure he started on third base, but by any measure was nonetheless very accomplished (galvanizing half the country to become POTUS, hello??).
Born on third and working hard are not mutually exclusive.
The point is don't lie. If you got help say so.
What is "help" though? I didn't grow up well off but my parents were immigrants and instilled in me self-motivation and the desire to hard work.
So do I still deserve what I got because of that? I worked hard but they made it "easy" for me because they gave me that mindset.
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Do hard-working poor people deserve to be poor?
If they had a bunch of kids out of wedlock with no money to support them…
So you can basically ensure the kids, who did not Choose this, will continue along the same path of poverty? I for one would like to help the kids and give them a path out of persistent poverty, having kids that are not planned, and give them a brighter future.
I for one, would like to reward good parents & punish bad parents.