Nastiness and competitiveness is a by-product of living in one of the most stressful, aggressive cities in the USA. My DH look forward to putting our senior in a less stressful and obnoxious area. We are leaving too

Nightmare here

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Exaclety

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

You said "You", so I just matched that.
That's not the point.

Your child has a lot of advantages.

Again you assume too much.

Noblesse Oblige.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Exactly, rich people get free points (for example, 40% of Harvard admits = ALDC)

Additionally, Low imcome people get free points. URMs get free points.

It's alwasys the hardworing middle class getting fukced.
System is broken. This is bad for the society and the country.

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Anonymous wrote:You seem very sure that you're doing it much better than everyone else, OP.

I don't know anyone in my circle how does what you claim we all do.

Perhaps you could stretch to understand that we are all complex creatures who can be rational and tolerant most of the time, but who occasionally need to vent our disappointments and resentments on an anonymous online forum. This is why this forum gets heated.

But you know better, of course.

Where are you from? That you don't know ANYONE who functions like this. It's like this in most highly educated areas of the country. For some reasons most people think attending T20 school is the only way to be successful in life. Kids plan and mold their HS "career" just in hopes of getting into the best college.

We personally don't fall 100% in this trap. We encourage our kids to take rigorous courses, but I let our 1500 3.99UW GPA skip APUSH/APEuro/APEng for their sanity and just stick to AP STEM courses. Also let them drop FL after level 3, when Spanish IV didn't fit into schedule with band and AP was taught by an abysmal teacher (had them for SP2 and were not going to deal with that crap again). But most around us were taking 5-6 APs each year just because "it's needed for college"---hint it's not. Sure my kid did not get into their T20 choice, but they had a much happier HS 4 years being allowed to enjoy life. They are at a T30-40 and extremely happy and trust me, plenty challenged. Despite having stats that put them at the 75% for the school (even pre covid they would have been 75-80%), they are surrounded by really smart, motivated students. Because the difference between someone with a 1500 and 1350 is minimal---both are really smart people.

Love the lecture on not falling into traps from someone who fell into the STEM STEM STEM trap. Why didn't you encourage your kid to take a healthy mix of APs in science, humanities, and social sciences instead of sticking to STEM APs? Let me guess -- because you made the "I have a STEM kid" calculation and you put your money on them getting into a strong STEM program based on taking a rigorous STEM load. You were gunning in your own way so maybe cut the sanctimony a little.

No, you are so far off base it's ridiculous. My kid made the decision "I'm a STEM kid" by MS all on their own, really it was apparent in ES. They were in advanced reading/LA in ES and honors LA/History/Humanities all the way thru MS and HS. They are really smart, but gravitated towards math/science because that is what interested them. They could do the humanities AP and would have gotten an A/A-, but chose to take Honors instead and not have an extra 10-15 hours/week of Homework for EACH humanities class. Instead they spent 15-25+ hours per week at their EC (dance). We supported this decision to actually sleep more than 2-3 hours per night and to maintain their mental health in HS. They did toss in AP Psych because it sounded interesting and they loved it, but have no interest in majoring in it.

This is a kid who was at the top of their math starting in K and 1st grade classes---a kid who gets the concepts immediately, and never went to Kumon or any type of tutoring. Their 1st grade teacher told me they were one of 2 kids in their advanced class of 30 who just "got it" and were way ahead of the majority, most of whom were there because they had been drilled with Kumon or flash cards, and I would volunteer in the class and could see this as well.
They love math and chemistry and coding. But we didn't push them to do EC based on STEM. We let them focus on dance, because that's what interested them and they wanted to be a part of. In late ES/early MS, it was proposed to put them 3 grade levels ahead in math but we didn't do it. We moved at that time and did not think it was healthy for a 6th grader to be with all 8th graders in a new school with totally new people. So they stuck with 2 grade levels ahead. Had we not moved, the kid would have hit Calculus in 10th grade and easily gotten an A.

Not everyone who is in stem was "pushed into it". Some people just naturally excel at it. If my kid wanted to take only Humantiies courses, I would have no issues with it. They can be an English Lit major if they want, but they would be miserable with that, and why would I force something like that (or rather force any topics)?

Maybe. But most "Stem kids" are pushed into it. We have older kids and younger kids, so I have seen it first hand - parents push - oeriod. If you think that does not happen, you are living under a rock. Some parents (more than you know) go so far as to pick their child's major. Ridiculous as it sounds!

I am well aware that there are parents that push!!! However, we are not those parents and there are many who do not push. We let our kids guide what interests them. Were we happy they gravitated towards STEM---yes, but mainly because we are both STEM grads (and one of us also has a music performance degree toss in with it) so it's what we fully understand. But we never pushed. When our kid asks we guide and answer questions truthfully. As in, my kid loved chemistry in HS and is strong in math. So we researched what getting a Chem degree means and what jobs are like. Then kid said "I'm not a fan of chem labs---like the math and the topic part of chem but hate the lab work". So they decided that perhaps a straight chem degree isn't for them, since with only a BS, you will likely be a grunt in someone else's lab doing lab work most of the day. So then they investigated engineering and went from there. It's a logical choice when you love math and science. Now they are at college they have even decided to add in a CS minor because they loved their initial coding class at college level and they see how it will benefit them to their areas of interest and research area with their specific engineering major. I would never think of "picking" my kid's major---that is ridiculous but I know does happen.

So for those that STEM is their strong suit, it's the obvious choice to select a path in that. My kids would have been miserable if we had said "you need to be an Eng Lit major" or "communications major" or "marketing major" or whatever humanities you want to pick. Because it's not their strong suit. And I'd never force them to pick a major they dont' like. This is their journey through life, I'm just along for the ride...and for paying

The only thing I do explain to my kids is to also look at your career choices with each major. Know what your options might be and what the initial, 5 year and 10 year pay looks like for someone with a BS/BA in that degree. See the types of jobs one might have at the 1 year, 5 year and 10 year mark with that degree. Know whether a MS or PHD or some advanced degree is required to actually do the work you are interested in (ie. Psychology really requires advanced degree to truly do any counseling or interesting research beyond being a grunt in someone else's lab, so if you are not in for additional schooling think about what you plan to do with your degree). basically, be aware of what your career path might be like. So if you don't want to work in a lab all day, then a straight Chem or Bio degree might not be your thing---but if you pair it with a business degree/communications degree/data science/CS/whatever then you have other options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

The person mentioned SE, DC meant low income Blacks.
If you are, you get bonus points in college admissions

Oh yeah. All of those sharp elbowed kids from Anacostia.

(I mean the ones who manage to avoid getting shot by the time they reach 18.)

Hogging all of the slots at Princeton and such.

After you spent ALL of that money on consultants, test prep, and expensive club sports.

I literally overhead a kid on the DC Streetcar yesterday. He was Facetiming a family friend with pride to let them know that he had gotten accepted into Prince George's community college.

According to College Factual, that school's six year graduation rate is 9%.

You people need to get out of your bubble from time to time.

You really do.

If the community has a problem, they need to fix the community.
They need to fix the source of the problem rather than giving them free points.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This board is full of toxic tiger moms pushing their kids into finance and CS. And kids from college confidential trolling. It’s a train wreck of toxicity and makes me hate our shallow, vapid, greedy, materialistic culture.

no need to get mad.
send our kid to JMU and be happy.

Thousands of kids are there & happy.

Best decision my kid ever made was picking JMU…using it as a put down is ridiculous!!

There's a balance to everything. I grew up with very laid back parents in a very loving home. Went to top 100 big state school and doing fine. But, I wish my parents were a bit more tiger parents. I wish they had pushed me more, intervened more to tell me what to do, been more disciplined, filled my schedule with more tutoring, lessons, camps etc. If they had, I know I would have done better in school and went to a better college, and honestly, probably been more successful. Of course, I could have been self-motivated to do all this on my own but when you're young, not everyone is so mature to see all this.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

You said "You", so I just matched that.
That's not the point.

Your child has a lot of advantages.

Again you assume too much.

Noblesse Oblige.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

I feel like this is always said disingenuously. You want other people to believe this so they aren't in your way, but don't practice what you preach.

Not PP, but I truly believe this. I'm smart enough to know from real life that I know lots of smart successful people , and only a few of them went to an elite school. Most of the executives I know did not, most of them are millionaires. They are smart motivated and got to that point thru hard work, just like 99.999% of people. In fact, most didn't even go to T30-60 schools, most went to 100+ in the rankings or unknown ones to many. Heck I even know 2 EVP of sales who are millionaires and did not even graduate college. In fact, didn't even know they didn't have a college degree until recently, because it doesn't matter. They are highly successful (known both for over 20 years). One has been a CEO of a startup as well. I didn't know because nobody cares or talks about where you went to school. Other than when your kids are applying to college or its march madness or fall college football, it's just not something normal people discuss ad nauseum

I find it somewhat humorous that everyone argues over Top 20 vs whatever school...but then when you mention the possibility of no college at all, then both parties align to rip your head off.

Maybe a shock to some, but there are professional jobs (like sales above) but also a bunch in Tech where they only care what you can do and don't care why or how you know to do what you do (i.e., they literally don't care if you graduate from college, go and drop out or don't go at all).

I have said more than once that I'd be fine if my kid didn't go to college as long as they had a practical plan for self-sufficiency and people absolutely freak you when you say this (in the DMV, I get a very different response if I say this in other places).

I know people who chose not to go to college or who dropped out of college for a variety of reasons and have fantastic lives. I actually associate that choice with people who are very self-directed and know what they want, because I have a good friend who left college after a year because it felt like some kind of placeholder for "finding herself" and she was like "what if I get a job and live somewhere cheap with a roommate for a while, and find myself while making money instead of spending it." And that's what she did and now 20 years later she has an amazing career in marketing that involves world travel, has owned multiple homes, and is very happy and fulfilled. She found college kind of pointless and I can see why.

The same logic that concluded that if you don't go to college, you will wind up a failure with nothing, also concludes that if you don't go to the "best" college (as defined by how many other people think it's the best and not by any metric specific to you) then you won't be as successful as someone who does.

I have lots of friends who went to top schools who are vaguely miserable in their lives. It just doesn't seem like the ticket to success and fulfillment everyone seems to think. If you have to borrow a lot of money to attend, it can actually hold you back from doing things that would actually make you happy and successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem very sure that you're doing it much better than everyone else, OP.

I don't know anyone in my circle how does what you claim we all do.

Perhaps you could stretch to understand that we are all complex creatures who can be rational and tolerant most of the time, but who occasionally need to vent our disappointments and resentments on an anonymous online forum. This is why this forum gets heated.

But you know better, of course.

Where are you from? That you don't know ANYONE who functions like this. It's like this in most highly educated areas of the country. For some reasons most people think attending T20 school is the only way to be successful in life. Kids plan and mold their HS "career" just in hopes of getting into the best college.

We personally don't fall 100% in this trap. We encourage our kids to take rigorous courses, but I let our 1500 3.99UW GPA skip APUSH/APEuro/APEng for their sanity and just stick to AP STEM courses. Also let them drop FL after level 3, when Spanish IV didn't fit into schedule with band and AP was taught by an abysmal teacher (had them for SP2 and were not going to deal with that crap again). But most around us were taking 5-6 APs each year just because "it's needed for college"---hint it's not. Sure my kid did not get into their T20 choice, but they had a much happier HS 4 years being allowed to enjoy life. They are at a T30-40 and extremely happy and trust me, plenty challenged. Despite having stats that put them at the 75% for the school (even pre covid they would have been 75-80%), they are surrounded by really smart, motivated students. Because the difference between someone with a 1500 and 1350 is minimal---both are really smart people.

Love the lecture on not falling into traps from someone who fell into the STEM STEM STEM trap. Why didn't you encourage your kid to take a healthy mix of APs in science, humanities, and social sciences instead of sticking to STEM APs? Let me guess -- because you made the "I have a STEM kid" calculation and you put your money on them getting into a strong STEM program based on taking a rigorous STEM load. You were gunning in your own way so maybe cut the sanctimony a little.

No, you are so far off base it's ridiculous. My kid made the decision "I'm a STEM kid" by MS all on their own, really it was apparent in ES. They were in advanced reading/LA in ES and honors LA/History/Humanities all the way thru MS and HS. They are really smart, but gravitated towards math/science because that is what interested them. They could do the humanities AP and would have gotten an A/A-, but chose to take Honors instead and not have an extra 10-15 hours/week of Homework for EACH humanities class. Instead they spent 15-25+ hours per week at their EC (dance). We supported this decision to actually sleep more than 2-3 hours per night and to maintain their mental health in HS. They did toss in AP Psych because it sounded interesting and they loved it, but have no interest in majoring in it.

This is a kid who was at the top of their math starting in K and 1st grade classes---a kid who gets the concepts immediately, and never went to Kumon or any type of tutoring. Their 1st grade teacher told me they were one of 2 kids in their advanced class of 30 who just "got it" and were way ahead of the majority, most of whom were there because they had been drilled with Kumon or flash cards, and I would volunteer in the class and could see this as well.
They love math and chemistry and coding. But we didn't push them to do EC based on STEM. We let them focus on dance, because that's what interested them and they wanted to be a part of. In late ES/early MS, it was proposed to put them 3 grade levels ahead in math but we didn't do it. We moved at that time and did not think it was healthy for a 6th grader to be with all 8th graders in a new school with totally new people. So they stuck with 2 grade levels ahead. Had we not moved, the kid would have hit Calculus in 10th grade and easily gotten an A.

Not everyone who is in stem was "pushed into it". Some people just naturally excel at it. If my kid wanted to take only Humantiies courses, I would have no issues with it. They can be an English Lit major if they want, but they would be miserable with that, and why would I force something like that (or rather force any topics)?

Maybe. But most "Stem kids" are pushed into it. We have older kids and younger kids, so I have seen it first hand - parents push - oeriod. If you think that does not happen, you are living under a rock. Some parents (more than you know) go so far as to pick their child's major. Ridiculous as it sounds!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This board is full of toxic tiger moms pushing their kids into finance and CS. And kids from college confidential trolling. It’s a train wreck of toxicity and makes me hate our shallow, vapid, greedy, materialistic culture.

no need to get mad.
send our kid to JMU and be happy.

Thousands of kids are there & happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

The person mentioned SE, DC meant low income Blacks.
If you are, you get bonus points in college admissions

Oh yeah. All of those sharp elbowed kids from Anacostia.

(I mean the ones who manage to avoid getting shot by the time they reach 18.)

Hogging all of the slots at Princeton and such.

After you spent ALL of that money on consultants, test prep, and expensive club sports.

I literally overhead a kid on the DC Streetcar yesterday. He was Facetiming a family friend with pride to let them know that he had gotten accepted into Prince George's community college.

According to College Factual, that school's six year graduation rate is 9%.

You people need to get out of your bubble from time to time.

You really do.

Anonymous wrote:This board is full of toxic tiger moms pushing their kids into finance and CS. And kids from college confidential trolling. It’s a train wreck of toxicity and makes me hate our shallow, vapid, greedy, materialistic culture.

no need to get mad.
send our kid to JMU and be happy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

The person mentioned SE, DC meant low income Blacks.
If you are, you get bonus points in college admissions

Yes that’s why elite colleges are filled with low-income Black students.

If you didn't know, we have a supreme court case for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

The person mentioned SE, DC meant low income Blacks.
If you are, you get bonus points in college admissions

Yes that’s why elite colleges are filled with low-income Black students.

Anonymous wrote:This board is full of toxic tiger moms pushing their kids into finance and CS. And kids from college confidential trolling. It’s a train wreck of toxicity and makes me hate our shallow, vapid, greedy, materialistic culture.

It’s not 2005