Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

The Scripture, which was written with the agenda to get people to believe in the divinity of Jesus, does two things here that are problematic:

1. It paints Pontius Pilate in a sympathetic light, as if he wouldn't have crucified Jesus if not for the insistence of the Jewish mob. But "non-Biblical sources portray [Pilate] as a barbarous leader who willfully defied the traditions of the Jewish people he oversaw." https://www.history.com/news/why-pontius-pilate-executed-jesus

2. It demonizes the Jews by turning them as a whole into a mob that would rather free a murderer than Jesus, as you put it above.

Taking Scripture as fact leads you to say that "based on the available facts, the crucifixion can be blamed 40% on Jews." There are so many other things from antiquity and the Bible that we are ok with not really knowing for sure (the Flood and the Exodus, for example). We conclude they are complicated by other historical records and we are largely ok with taking them on faith as important stories about morality, regardless of the "facts" behind them. So to take the scripture of the crucifixion as "fact" because "that's all we got" when we are willing to put so many other things in the realm of we-don't-know-for-sure is just so incredibly problematic.

That was just my personal rough estimate. Of course, the percentages can be argued about. And it is of course problematic since we don't know for sure. Probably a billion Christians believe this though.

NP
You should correct it to 40% of the the crowd at that time, not the % of the population as a whole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

The Scripture, which was written with the agenda to get people to believe in the divinity of Jesus, does two things here that are problematic:

1. It paints Pontius Pilate in a sympathetic light, as if he wouldn't have crucified Jesus if not for the insistence of the Jewish mob. But "non-Biblical sources portray [Pilate] as a barbarous leader who willfully defied the traditions of the Jewish people he oversaw." https://www.history.com/news/why-pontius-pilate-executed-jesus

2. It demonizes the Jews by turning them as a whole into a mob that would rather free a murderer than Jesus, as you put it above.

Taking Scripture as fact leads you to say that "based on the available facts, the crucifixion can be blamed 40% on Jews." There are so many other things from antiquity and the Bible that we are ok with not really knowing for sure (the Flood and the Exodus, for example). We conclude they are complicated by other historical records and we are largely ok with taking them on faith as important stories about morality, regardless of the "facts" behind them. So to take the scripture of the crucifixion as "fact" because "that's all we got" when we are willing to put so many other things in the realm of we-don't-know-for-sure is just so incredibly problematic.

That was just my personal rough estimate. Of course, the percentages can be argued about. And it is of course problematic since we don't know for sure. Probably a billion Christians believe this though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

The Scripture, which was written with the agenda to get people to believe in the divinity of Jesus, does two things here that are problematic:

1. It paints Pontius Pilate in a sympathetic light, as if he wouldn't have crucified Jesus if not for the insistence of the Jewish mob. But "non-Biblical sources portray [Pilate] as a barbarous leader who willfully defied the traditions of the Jewish people he oversaw." https://www.history.com/news/why-pontius-pilate-executed-jesus

2. It demonizes the Jews by turning them as a whole into a mob that would rather free a murderer than Jesus, as you put it above.

Taking Scripture as fact leads you to say that "based on the available facts, the crucifixion can be blamed 40% on Jews." There are so many other things from antiquity and the Bible that we are ok with not really knowing for sure (the Flood and the Exodus, for example). We conclude they are complicated by other historical records and we are largely ok with taking them on faith as important stories about morality, regardless of the "facts" behind them. So to take the scripture of the crucifixion as "fact" because "that's all we got" when we are willing to put so many other things in the realm of we-don't-know-for-sure is just so incredibly problematic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

and it's a fact that Little Red Riding Hood was written in story books of fairy tales.

ok, but I give the Bible a iittle more credit than that. You don't. That's fine, but you don't have to be a dick about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

and it's a fact that Little Red Riding Hood was written in story books of fairy tales.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

well, yeah, but that's all we got.
And if you quote a Bible verse, it's a fact that was written in the Bible.

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

"Facts" by which you mean Scripture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

It is 100% Roman justice system.
No normal person wants one of their national crucified.
As of the crowd Chios of Barabbas I read somewhere he was a revolutionary and that might explain his popularity at that time.

well it was 100% the Roman justice system, yes.
But who handed him over to the Roman authorities after having found him guilty of blasphemy?
And of course Jesus himself played a role by refusing to answer whether he was King of the Jews. He could have just said no.

Probably that is the agreement the temple priests have with the Roman Empire.
We will let you have your religious freedom but hand over the trouble makers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

It is 100% Roman justice system.
No normal person wants one of their national crucified.
As of the crowd Chios of Barabbas I read somewhere he was a revolutionary and that might explain his popularity at that time.

I assume you've read Mathew 27 15-23

15 Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. 16 At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus[a] Barabbas. 17 So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?” 18 For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

19 While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

21 “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

“Barabbas,” they answered.

22 “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, “Crucify him!”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

It is 100% Roman justice system.
No normal person wants one of their national crucified.
As of the crowd Chios of Barabbas I read somewhere he was a revolutionary and that might explain his popularity at that time.

well it was 100% the Roman justice system, yes.
But who handed him over to the Roman authorities after having found him guilty of blasphemy?
And of course Jesus himself played a role by refusing to answer whether he was King of the Jews. He could have just said no.

No need for the bickering. Jews were God's chosen people, but they partied like it was 1999. Romans were sinners, too. Jesus was a prophet and quite God like because God is his father. He preached like Bob Marley to unite the divided. In the end, Jesus was collateral damage. God hates us and we’re all going to hell. The atheists will be stuck in purgatory trying to find the exit.

* Choice

Anonymous wrote:I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

It is 100% Roman justice system.
No normal person wants one of their national crucified.
As of the crowd Chios of Barabbas I read somewhere he was a revolutionary and that might explain his popularity at that time.

I'd say, realistically, and based on the available facts, the crucifiction can be blamed 40% on the Jews and 60% on the Romans. We can argue a bit on that, but I am particularly influenced in this conclusion by the offer Pilate made to free one of the prisoners after their condemnation, and the crowd picked Barabbas, a murderer, to be freed and not Jesus.

Anonymous wrote:The Romans would crucify you for lots of things and I think they got Jesus for basically preaching without a license.

NO,
You might get death penalty for a lot of things but death by crucifixion was reserved for certain crimes.
Like a lot of people said Treason is one of those crimes.
Jesus teaching of “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” message could be seen as threat to the political elites.