Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

UCLA is a T25 school that gives credit for 3s.

https://admission.ucla.edu/admitted-students/ap-credit-the-college

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucla-1315

I stand corrected. UCLA is tied for #20 with UC Berkeley and both gives credit credit for 3s on AP tests.

In contrast, if you look at (say) NYU (#25) you need at least a 4 on an AP test to get college credit.

I guess the advice is: if your kid is bad at AP tests and wants to graduate in 3 years, he or she should apply to one of the UCs.

Good luck getting into UCs out of state with a bunch of 2s and 3s on APs. Those schools are incredibly competitive.

This. It’s laughable to even think a kid is going to have a chance with 3 on AP. Seriously.

You don't have to submit AP test scores to get admitted and, if you do, the UCs don't count them against you.

So, if you otherwise have a high GPA/SAT/ACT plus good extracurrics plus hook(s) you could get in regardless of whether you had some 3s on AP tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

UCLA is a T25 school that gives credit for 3s.

https://admission.ucla.edu/admitted-students/ap-credit-the-college

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucla-1315

I stand corrected. UCLA is tied for #20 with UC Berkeley and both gives credit credit for 3s on AP tests.

In contrast, if you look at (say) NYU (#25) you need at least a 4 on an AP test to get college credit.

I guess the advice is: if your kid is bad at AP tests and wants to graduate in 3 years, he or she should apply to one of the UCs.

Good luck getting into UCs out of state with a bunch of 2s and 3s on APs. Those schools are incredibly competitive.

This. It’s laughable to even think a kid is going to have a chance with 3 on AP. Seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

UCLA is a T25 school that gives credit for 3s.

https://admission.ucla.edu/admitted-students/ap-credit-the-college

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucla-1315

I stand corrected. UCLA is tied for #20 with UC Berkeley and both gives credit credit for 3s on AP tests.

In contrast, if you look at (say) NYU (#25) you need at least a 4 on an AP test to get college credit.

I guess the advice is: if your kid is bad at AP tests and wants to graduate in 3 years, he or she should apply to one of the UCs.

Good luck getting into UCs out of state with a bunch of 2s and 3s on APs. Those schools are incredibly competitive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

UCLA is a T25 school that gives credit for 3s.

https://admission.ucla.edu/admitted-students/ap-credit-the-college

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucla-1315

I stand corrected. UCLA is tied for #20 with UC Berkeley and both gives credit credit for 3s on AP tests.

In contrast, if you look at (say) NYU (#25) you need at least a 4 on an AP test to get college credit.

I guess the advice is: if your kid is bad at AP tests and wants to graduate in 3 years, he or she should apply to one of the UCs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

UCLA is a T25 school that gives credit for 3s.

https://admission.ucla.edu/admitted-students/ap-credit-the-college

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ucla-1315

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Tons of schools give college credit for 3 but, sure, they are not T25 schools or anything close.

Anonymous wrote:I would also say, to add to the "competing goals" conversation - if you're looking at scores from OTHER kids, what matters is not their college applications. What matters is that enough people at the school have enough of a command of the material that the CLASS must have been taught at a true AP level. If you're a kid who has the skills to get a 4/5 in an AP class, but the "AP class" at your school is actually full of kids who don't take the exam at all, or who will take it and get a 1 or even a 2, that class may not give you what you need to succeed. Whereas, a class full of kids, most of whom will get at least a three, is a true AP class that can give you what you need.

Three feels like the right cutoff for that.

You can support all levels in an AP class (but that isn’t to say all AP classes are set up to do it). What my all level class often looks like: intro to a topic appropriate for everyone followed by practice and application work in the topic that ramps up in difficulty. My likely 4-5 students work through all the problems including the most challenging and then move onto more AP style practice or more difficult application extensions. My 3’s make it through all the practice and application work but slower and with more support. They likely don’t get to the additional AP practice or extensions. My 1-2’s likely don’t get through all the more advanced practice and application and that’s ok. They are not directly penalized on that for class work. Everyone takes 100% AP question tests (and many score very low but that’s IK because their class work will bring them up to a C or so in the class.

The students “harmed“ by this structure are basically smart but unmotivated kids who goof around instead of working consistently to their capacity so don’t ever do the harder work they are capable of. I’m Ok with that because the sane student would struggle to do well in a real college class as well.

I would also say, to add to the "competing goals" conversation - if you're looking at scores from OTHER kids, what matters is not their college applications. What matters is that enough people at the school have enough of a command of the material that the CLASS must have been taught at a true AP level. If you're a kid who has the skills to get a 4/5 in an AP class, but the "AP class" at your school is actually full of kids who don't take the exam at all, or who will take it and get a 1 or even a 2, that class may not give you what you need to succeed. Whereas, a class full of kids, most of whom will get at least a three, is a true AP class that can give you what you need.

Three feels like the right cutoff for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

But getting credit is not the only goal of taking AP. 3’s strengthen the college applications of kids not applying to top schools. 2’s look better than no AP’s on college applications for students who are not stellar students but are college bound.

As an AP teacher in DC I tell students:
If you are trying to get into an Ivy or very top tier school a 4/5 will strengthen your application and a 3 is neutral.
If you are applying to a mid-tier school a 3-5 helps your application and a 2 is neutral.
If you are applying to less selective schools a 2 helps your application over kids who don’t challenge themselves by taking AP.

To be honest many schools elite and not just don’t give credit for any AP’s anymore which is why I focus more on college application strength with them.

This is a great point and also fully illustrates the competing goals. DCPS's perspective is that more kids (including those who are not stellar students) taking AP classes is good because it makes for stronger college applications for those students and shows less selective schools that they took steps to challenge themselves in high school.

The question is whether this focus (call it AP for all, or AP for many) takes anything away from the experience of kids who are stellar students, who may be aiming at ivies. In other words, does "AP for all college-bound kids" make it harder for these students to get all the content they need to score a 4 or 5 on the test, which is what colleges they are applying to expect.

In my suburban high school, 80-90% of kids were college bound. But only about 25% of kids took AP classes BECAUSE the pace and rigor of them was really intense.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

But getting credit is not the only goal of taking AP. 3’s strengthen the college applications of kids not applying to top schools. 2’s look better than no AP’s on college applications for students who are not stellar students but are college bound.

As an AP teacher in DC I tell students:
If you are trying to get into an Ivy or very top tier school a 4/5 will strengthen your application and a 3 is neutral.
If you are applying to a mid-tier school a 3-5 helps your application and a 2 is neutral.
If you are applying to less selective schools a 2 helps your application over kids who don’t challenge themselves by taking AP.

To be honest many schools elite and not just don’t give credit for any AP’s anymore which is why I focus more on college application strength with them.

I don’t know of any college that takes 3. I went to a state school and they only took 4 or 5.

It’s not elite only schools that take 4 or 5. This is the norm.

There are outlier schools who might take a 3 but not common and likely bottom of the heap.

Anonymous wrote:
NP but I think PP is saying a 3 doesn’t really mean much. And they’re right. It doesn’t get college credit, doesn’t indicate mastery of content, etc.

You're all wrong, do your research. AP World, for example...https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/getting-credit-placement/search-policies/course/37

Now, if you'd care to admit that you're elitist about where kids go to college, that's another thing. Most Ivy's take 5s, some 4s, if that.