Anonymous
02/21/2023 13:58
Subject: Re:Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Italian Gourmet in DC has pizza similar to NYC pizza. Mamma Lucia's pizza is the closest I've found to NY pizza in Maryland, though the crust is still a bit thick and it's not quite as greasy as NYC pizza. I prefer the Olney location to the Rockville location; the pizza tastes better to me in Olney for some reason. Years ago I had Flippin Pizza near Montgomery Mall and that seemed similar to NYC pizza too.
CS NY pizza in Rockville is great.
Anonymous
02/21/2023 13:58
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:There's something about the NY water that makes pizza dough and bagels better. Unless you're importing the water, it's just not the same!
+1
Seems like it certainly is one factor...
https://www.foodandwine.com/news/new-york-water-bagels-pizza
"Every city's water differs slightly, depending on where the water comes from. New York water is considered to be "soft," meaning it has low concentrations of calcium and magnesium due to the makeup of the water that flows into the Catskills and Delaware Watershed.
Soft water tastes slightly different than hard water, perhaps even saltier due to the increase in sodium ions. Beyond the taste though (and most important for our pizza and bagels) the difference in water also has an effect on the gluten in dough. The presence of calcium and magnesium in hard water strengthens the gluten in the dough, making the finished product tougher and stronger. With very soft water, the dough tends to get soft and sticky. As Smithsonian Magazine puts it, New York City tap water is sort of the "Goldilocks" of water when it comes to dough-making."
https://narratively.com/is-it-something-in-the-water/
"What we do know is that New York City’s water is top notch. The largest unfiltered drinking water supply in the world, New York’s system is one of only five nationwide that sends water directly from the source to users’ taps without requiring it to first be run through physical barriers to remove impurities."
But...
"Instead, he argues that it is the art of dough and breadmaking — using techniques that have been honed throughout the city over centuries — that may distinguish certain products from other versions elsewhere in the world. Good ingredients are important, but proper fermentation — the chemical leavening process in which the yeast forces a slab of dough to rise by absorbing sugars and converting them into carbon dioxide — is the key."
Anonymous
02/21/2023 13:41
Subject: Re:Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Italian Gourmet in DC has pizza similar to NYC pizza. Mamma Lucia's pizza is the closest I've found to NY pizza in Maryland, though the crust is still a bit thick and it's not quite as greasy as NYC pizza. I prefer the Olney location to the Rockville location; the pizza tastes better to me in Olney for some reason. Years ago I had Flippin Pizza near Montgomery Mall and that seemed similar to NYC pizza too.
Anonymous
02/21/2023 08:43
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anybody remember Vince and Dominics behind the mall? They tore down the part of the building it was in next to the Post Office but that place was da bomb. Slices as big as your head and gooooooooood!!!!!!!!
Yes - loved that place.
Anonymous
02/21/2023 08:00
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anybody remember Vince and Dominics behind the mall? They tore down the part of the building it was in next to the Post Office but that place was da bomb. Slices as big as your head and gooooooooood!!!!!!!!
Anonymous
02/21/2023 06:44
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t even think people even know what the mean when asking for good NY Pizza. If Andy’s or Wiseguys were in NY people would be raving about and complaining they can’t get the same in DC.
I’d love to see all these NY Pizza experts do a blind taste test.
My standard for a slice is the Rays at 6th Ave near 8th. My standard for a pie is John’s on Bleeker. I haven’t been to either in a few years, but haven’t had pizza that’s close to that here. My pizza standards were also set in New Haven, so I liked Pete’s when I had it a few years ago, and haven’t yet tried Pepe’s. I don’t eat pizza much, but I’m open to trying it if it’s good, and I’m not picky about the style. Yay: Timber.
PP, I’d be happy to do a blind taste test. Lol. This thread actually reminded me that I did one with coworkers using Coke from different regional bottling plants. We nailed it.
do we know each other? these were my pizza joints in the late 80s/90s. I took my son to John’s a couple years ago. He didnt get the charm, sadly…
Maybe we do! The late 80’s through the mid 90’s were my prime pizza-in-the-Village years. (After that I shifted to Rafetto’s tortellini and Ollie’s dumplings.) Is it awful that my first thought was: How wonderful that you took your son to John’s! But my second was: Bummer, but more slices for you! lol. I have tried the pizzas more recently— but pre-COVID, and was happy to find that they were just as good as I remembered.
John’s - NO SLICES!
While it’s true that John’s doesn’t sell pizza by the slice, rest assured that there are any of a number of ways to transform a whole pizza into smaller portions. The staff at John’s will even help with this.
Sounds like witchcraft to me
Anonymous
02/20/2023 22:30
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t even think people even know what the mean when asking for good NY Pizza. If Andy’s or Wiseguys were in NY people would be raving about and complaining they can’t get the same in DC.
I’d love to see all these NY Pizza experts do a blind taste test.
My standard for a slice is the Rays at 6th Ave near 8th. My standard for a pie is John’s on Bleeker. I haven’t been to either in a few years, but haven’t had pizza that’s close to that here. My pizza standards were also set in New Haven, so I liked Pete’s when I had it a few years ago, and haven’t yet tried Pepe’s. I don’t eat pizza much, but I’m open to trying it if it’s good, and I’m not picky about the style. Yay: Timber.
PP, I’d be happy to do a blind taste test. Lol. This thread actually reminded me that I did one with coworkers using Coke from different regional bottling plants. We nailed it.
do we know each other? these were my pizza joints in the late 80s/90s. I took my son to John’s a couple years ago. He didnt get the charm, sadly…
Maybe we do! The late 80’s through the mid 90’s were my prime pizza-in-the-Village years. (After that I shifted to Rafetto’s tortellini and Ollie’s dumplings.) Is it awful that my first thought was: How wonderful that you took your son to John’s! But my second was: Bummer, but more slices for you! lol. I have tried the pizzas more recently— but pre-COVID, and was happy to find that they were just as good as I remembered.
John’s - NO SLICES!
While it’s true that John’s doesn’t sell pizza by the slice, rest assured that there are any of a number of ways to transform a whole pizza into smaller portions. The staff at John’s will even help with this.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 22:14
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t even think people even know what the mean when asking for good NY Pizza. If Andy’s or Wiseguys were in NY people would be raving about and complaining they can’t get the same in DC.
I’d love to see all these NY Pizza experts do a blind taste test.
My standard for a slice is the Rays at 6th Ave near 8th. My standard for a pie is John’s on Bleeker. I haven’t been to either in a few years, but haven’t had pizza that’s close to that here. My pizza standards were also set in New Haven, so I liked Pete’s when I had it a few years ago, and haven’t yet tried Pepe’s. I don’t eat pizza much, but I’m open to trying it if it’s good, and I’m not picky about the style. Yay: Timber.
PP, I’d be happy to do a blind taste test. Lol. This thread actually reminded me that I did one with coworkers using Coke from different regional bottling plants. We nailed it.
do we know each other? these were my pizza joints in the late 80s/90s. I took my son to John’s a couple years ago. He didnt get the charm, sadly…
Maybe we do! The late 80’s through the mid 90’s were my prime pizza-in-the-Village years. (After that I shifted to Rafetto’s tortellini and Ollie’s dumplings.) Is it awful that my first thought was: How wonderful that you took your son to John’s! But my second was: Bummer, but more slices for you! lol. I have tried the pizzas more recently— but pre-COVID, and was happy to find that they were just as good as I remembered.
John’s - NO SLICES!
Anonymous
02/20/2023 18:52
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There's something about the NY water that makes pizza dough and bagels better. Unless you're importing the water, it's just not the same!
That is a myth.
No it isn’t.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 14:23
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Agree that it must be the water.
I’ve lived in New Haven, NYC, Baltimore and DC.
with regard to pizza, NYC>New Haven >>>>Baltimore>DC.
The taste of the water follows roughly the same pattern.
The tap water in Baltimore and DC is just awful. Strange chemically taste and an unpleasant mouthfeel. Someone could make good money by just bottling NYC water, though.
+1, I grew up in Fairfield county, CT. Even there, more Italian immigrants, better Italian food in general. You can get basic Italian pasta takeout that is delicious and less than $20 for a serving of pasta.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 14:12
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t even think people even know what the mean when asking for good NY Pizza. If Andy’s or Wiseguys were in NY people would be raving about and complaining they can’t get the same in DC.
I’d love to see all these NY Pizza experts do a blind taste test.
My standard for a slice is the Rays at 6th Ave near 8th. My standard for a pie is John’s on Bleeker. I haven’t been to either in a few years, but haven’t had pizza that’s close to that here. My pizza standards were also set in New Haven, so I liked Pete’s when I had it a few years ago, and haven’t yet tried Pepe’s. I don’t eat pizza much, but I’m open to trying it if it’s good, and I’m not picky about the style. Yay: Timber.
PP, I’d be happy to do a blind taste test. Lol. This thread actually reminded me that I did one with coworkers using Coke from different regional bottling plants. We nailed it.
Good taste! I am a born and raised New Yorker, I'd be happy to do a taste test. I am pretty sure I would instantly be able to separate NY pizza from not.
That said, Andy's and Wiseguy are my favorites in DC. They're not the same as NY pizza, but they are good and scratch the itch well enough.
Ok, so, we’ve got at least two of us up for the Regional/ Mid-Atlantic Pizza Taste Test! I’m not sure I could tell NY pizza from good NY - style pizza — but trying to would be fun!
Sign me up too! I could totally pick out NY pizza.
-Grew up in NJ and spent a lot of my childhood in NYC
+1. The easy difference for me is I eat the crust on NYC pizza and not DC version of NY style pizza.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 12:47
Subject: Re:Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Have you tried making your own? I’ve had great results with this recipe in both a 500 degree oven on a stone and in my Breville Pizzaiolo (a fabulous I’d extremely pricey device). The latter has a preset temperature and time for NY style pizza.
You can't make your own.
Household ovens will never get hot enough.
Sure you can. Ny style pizzas are usually cooked at between 500 and 550. Easy to achieve with most household ovens and a stone or baking steel. The Breville goes up to 750, which is a bit short of what you’d need for an authentic Neapolitan pie, but still produces an amazing pizza. Ooni ovens get up to 950, more than hot enough for Neapolitan.
I thought it was 700+.
I have a stone and an oven that reaches 550. I can make tasty pizza at home. It is NOT NY pizza. Not even close.
The temperature depends on the style/type of pizza. And your outcome is going to depend a lot on the recipe you use and how well you handle your dough. The serious eats recipe posted above is great, as is the one from Roberta’s in Brooklyn from the NYT cooking site. Also you need to find full fat mozzarella in block form for grating. Even if your home cooked version doesn’t match your memories of your favorite NY place, fresh from the oven it will be better than most anything you can get here.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 10:58
Subject: Re:Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Have you tried making your own? I’ve had great results with this recipe in both a 500 degree oven on a stone and in my Breville Pizzaiolo (a fabulous I’d extremely pricey device). The latter has a preset temperature and time for NY style pizza.
You can't make your own.
Household ovens will never get hot enough.
Sure you can. Ny style pizzas are usually cooked at between 500 and 550. Easy to achieve with most household ovens and a stone or baking steel. The Breville goes up to 750, which is a bit short of what you’d need for an authentic Neapolitan pie, but still produces an amazing pizza. Ooni ovens get up to 950, more than hot enough for Neapolitan.
I thought it was 700+.
I have a stone and an oven that reaches 550. I can make tasty pizza at home. It is NOT NY pizza. Not even close.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 10:54
Subject: Re:Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Have you tried making your own? I’ve had great results with this recipe in both a 500 degree oven on a stone and in my Breville Pizzaiolo (a fabulous I’d extremely pricey device). The latter has a preset temperature and time for NY style pizza.
You can't make your own.
Household ovens will never get hot enough.
Sure you can. Ny style pizzas are usually cooked at between 500 and 550. Easy to achieve with most household ovens and a stone or baking steel. The Breville goes up to 750, which is a bit short of what you’d need for an authentic Neapolitan pie, but still produces an amazing pizza. Ooni ovens get up to 950, more than hot enough for Neapolitan.
Anonymous
02/20/2023 09:18
Subject: Why is so hard to find a great NY-style pizza outside of New York ?
Anonymous wrote:Because not many 100% Italians here compared to NY.
Agree this could be the reason.
1) More Italians who know how to make pizza.
2) More customer base for constant pizza making that improve skills.