Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 17:49     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:PP, I realized I phrased that in a confusing way. For my niece, it did result in a CPS visit and it really made things even harder for her parents and her. Don't wait on this.


Not the OP, but an earlier PP. What was your niece diagnosed with?


It's still being hashed out with further treatment, but at the very least, major depression, PTSD with anxiety and panic disorder traits as well. No abuse, but she was a social butterfly and Covid really did a number on that. Combine that with puberty hormones, and then she found her sibling not breathing in the middle of the night and although she saved his life and helped unearth a hidden condition it really sent her off the rails. There was a suicide attempt and an episode of running away. But, the mental health system in our country right now is stressed to the limits. The whole time, her parents are trying to get her in everywhere and anywhere, school is involved, and even the ER had to release her because there are no beds.

Ironically, when CPS came, they basically threw their hands in the air and told them we've done everything we can. If getting you involved will help us get treatment, then HELP US! She was not removed from the home and was able to get treatment fairly quickly, but it was degrading and demoralizing, and unbelievably scary for the whole family to have to get to that point when they were trying to be responsible the whole time.

Thanks for reading if you got this far...we special needs parents know the shortcomings of our institutions and my heart breaks every time a kid goes without help. These are UMC people too, it can happen to any of us. Also, this wasn't in our area...different areas are having different shortages.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 17:38     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Therapy, yes--for her, for you, and family. But honestly, also, a nature focused sleepaway camp, ideally all girls, that doesn't allow cell phones..give her a break from the family and social media, give you a break from her, let someone else (counselor) work on the hygiene issues with some modeling from peers. Get a bunch of camp brochures and let her pick. This is not a punishment.



I can't see this ending well. While well-meaning, good kids, your regular teen camp counselor is NOT going to be equipped to deal with a struggling child like OP's DD and then there's the real possibility she would end up ostracized or bullied for her behavior.



OP here. Yes, I would love for my daughter to be able to do something like camp, but I don’t think it is a great idea at this stage. Also, it wasn’t the wet pants on a pile that was the problem , it was that her plan was to wear the sopping wet pants to school today.


Read Ross Greene and figure out how to talk with her about what is going on and how to deal with it. If she's outgrown her other pants and these are the only ones that fit, or if she gets teased when wearing other clothes, I could see why she felt this was her best option though obviously it wasn't a good choice. behavior is communication. What was she trying to communicate? How can she communicate her needs more effectively and how can you better meet them?


Definitely has not outgrown other pants. There were at least 20 other pants options. She wore those pants yesterday. That’s why they were in the wash. In fact they are my old pants that she has taken over. Black gap bootcut yoga. Womens large. Too long for her legs. What was she trying to communicate?? I have no idea. What I am concerned about was the disordered thinking that she thought wearing wet pants straight from the washing machine was a normal thing to do and a good idea, and her only option. She ended up wearing a different pair that is a brand new pair that she requested and got for Christmas, one of several brand new ones. But only after I took away the wet ones. That seems like something a toddler would do, not a middle schooler.


OP, don’t you don’t need to focus on the pants or what it means. As a mother of a teen, sometimes they do weird stuff. People with OCD do weird, inexplicable stuff, too. (I’m one of these people). One of her compulsions could be around these pants and she’s not telling you. You KNOW her OCD/anxiety is a problem. Why aren’t you medicating her for this? Why?


Because she is so young. I don’t want to mess up the chemistry of her developing brain. But however we are at the point now where we need to try the medication tool.


Totally get the idea of not wanting to mess with her brain chemistry, but what she's doing seems to indicate that this is beyond normal teen quirkiness/rebellion. There is already something messed up with the brain chemistry and she can't possibly be happy this way. And remember, you are on the special needs board, we've all had to accept the fact that something is messed up with our children's brain chemistry, including you, we get how hard it is. You have another child with ASD; I'm no psychologist but could some of this be acting out because so much attention is paid to her brother; that could also fuel the anger towards him? Does she feel like she's rebelling against some pressure to be the "normal" one? Seems like it could be one of many factors coming to a head. Also, medication is not forever and therapy will not benefit her until she is stabilized and able to participate.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 17:09     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Therapy, yes--for her, for you, and family. But honestly, also, a nature focused sleepaway camp, ideally all girls, that doesn't allow cell phones..give her a break from the family and social media, give you a break from her, let someone else (counselor) work on the hygiene issues with some modeling from peers. Get a bunch of camp brochures and let her pick. This is not a punishment.



I can't see this ending well. While well-meaning, good kids, your regular teen camp counselor is NOT going to be equipped to deal with a struggling child like OP's DD and then there's the real possibility she would end up ostracized or bullied for her behavior.



OP here. Yes, I would love for my daughter to be able to do something like camp, but I don’t think it is a great idea at this stage. Also, it wasn’t the wet pants on a pile that was the problem , it was that her plan was to wear the sopping wet pants to school today.


Read Ross Greene and figure out how to talk with her about what is going on and how to deal with it. If she's outgrown her other pants and these are the only ones that fit, or if she gets teased when wearing other clothes, I could see why she felt this was her best option though obviously it wasn't a good choice. behavior is communication. What was she trying to communicate? How can she communicate her needs more effectively and how can you better meet them?


Definitely has not outgrown other pants. There were at least 20 other pants options. She wore those pants yesterday. That’s why they were in the wash. In fact they are my old pants that she has taken over. Black gap bootcut yoga. Womens large. Too long for her legs. What was she trying to communicate?? I have no idea. What I am concerned about was the disordered thinking that she thought wearing wet pants straight from the washing machine was a normal thing to do and a good idea, and her only option. She ended up wearing a different pair that is a brand new pair that she requested and got for Christmas, one of several brand new ones. But only after I took away the wet ones. That seems like something a toddler would do, not a middle schooler.


OP, don’t you don’t need to focus on the pants or what it means. As a mother of a teen, sometimes they do weird stuff. People with OCD do weird, inexplicable stuff, too. (I’m one of these people). One of her compulsions could be around these pants and she’s not telling you. You KNOW her OCD/anxiety is a problem. Why aren’t you medicating her for this? Why?


Because she is so young. I don’t want to mess up the chemistry of her developing brain. But however we are at the point now where we need to try the medication tool.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 17:06     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:My now teenaged daughter was diagnosed with autism around age 11 or 12 and that was also around when she started sneaking candy (and leaving the wrappers all over the house under cushions etc) and even stole cash from my purse (to go buy more candy). I can also totally see her doing the wet pants thing, if it were a pair of pants she particularly liked. She always have exactly the right filter for what's acceptable and what isn't, and she doesn't think to ask most of the time, she just does.

Autism in girls can appear differently than autism in boys because girls can mask socially at earlier ages than boys can. So autism in girls might be caught later.

I can't speak to the rudeness to you and the family, etc. We get shouting sometimes, but only when things get very stressful for her. She knows we are on her side. So it could be something else, but some of this sounds like it could be autism.

How does your daughter do in back and forth conversations, especially on topics that don't particularly interest her? Can she give and take with friends about things that interest her friends but don't particularly interest her? We also had a lot of parallel play when my daughter was in elementary -- playing with the same toys but separately, rather than playing pretend together. (There was some of that too, but more parallel play than NT kids.)

good luck!


Thank you, this gives me hope!
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 17:05     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Therapy, yes--for her, for you, and family. But honestly, also, a nature focused sleepaway camp, ideally all girls, that doesn't allow cell phones..give her a break from the family and social media, give you a break from her, let someone else (counselor) work on the hygiene issues with some modeling from peers. Get a bunch of camp brochures and let her pick. This is not a punishment.



I can't see this ending well. While well-meaning, good kids, your regular teen camp counselor is NOT going to be equipped to deal with a struggling child like OP's DD and then there's the real possibility she would end up ostracized or bullied for her behavior.



OP here. Yes, I would love for my daughter to be able to do something like camp, but I don’t think it is a great idea at this stage. Also, it wasn’t the wet pants on a pile that was the problem , it was that her plan was to wear the sopping wet pants to school today.




Read Ross Greene and figure out how to talk with her about what is going on and how to deal with it. If she's outgrown her other pants and these are the only ones that fit, or if she gets teased when wearing other clothes, I could see why she felt this was her best option though obviously it wasn't a good choice. behavior is communication. What was she trying to communicate? How can she communicate her needs more effectively and how can you better meet them?


Definitely has not outgrown other pants. There were at least 20 other pants options. She wore those pants yesterday. That’s why they were in the wash. In fact they are my old pants that she has taken over. Black gap bootcut yoga. Womens large. Too long for her legs. What was she trying to communicate?? I have no idea. What I am concerned about was the disordered thinking that she thought wearing wet pants straight from the washing machine was a normal thing to do and a good idea, and her only option. She ended up wearing a different pair that is a brand new pair that she requested and got for Christmas, one of several brand new ones. But only after I took away the wet ones. That seems like something a toddler would do, not a middle schooler.


It’s weird behavior but kids are weird. At around that age I caught my little brother running his dirty socks under the sink before school - he said “I want to get them less crusty before I put them on.” She just really likes those pants. [/quot

Thank you for the laugh
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 16:40     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP’s kid needs some fairly urgent advice but not necessarily inpatient. The only urgent care walk up clinics I’m aware of are Merrifield in Fairfax and Shepherd Pratt. That’s not a hospitalization. Grabbing some therapist when you don’t know what’s wrong, and therefore what to do, is not going to help.

I’d move over to a NAMI group pretty fast OP.


OP here, do you mean we should sign up as parents or her alone in a nami family support group? I am not sure how the Nami system works. Is there a therapist? Today is the first I’ve heard of nami. How is this different than a therapist in person?


Nami is a group of parents or patients as a self-support group. It’s free, confidential, and no therapist involved. However it has a lot of value if you’re looking for therapist or treatment recommendations in the mental health space.

Most DCUM special needs parents are here for ADHD, autism, and anxiety. I can’t really tell what’s up with your daughter of course, but such symptoms are more serious than the more typical DCUM stuff.


every symptom OP listed could be part of autism, adhd, puberty, and dysfunctional parenting. this child is not schizophrenic because they wanted to wear wet pants.


Wow. The meanness. It’s like online bullying here.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:48     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:My now teenaged daughter was diagnosed with autism around age 11 or 12 and that was also around when she started sneaking candy (and leaving the wrappers all over the house under cushions etc) and even stole cash from my purse (to go buy more candy). I can also totally see her doing the wet pants thing, if it were a pair of pants she particularly liked. She doesn't always have exactly the right filter for what's acceptable and what isn't, and she doesn't think to ask most of the time, she just does.

Autism in girls can appear differently than autism in boys because girls can mask socially at earlier ages than boys can. So autism in girls might be caught later.

I can't speak to the rudeness to you and the family, etc. We get shouting sometimes, but only when things get very stressful for her. She knows we are on her side. So it could be something else, but some of this sounds like it could be autism.

How does your daughter do in back and forth conversations, especially on topics that don't particularly interest her? Can she give and take with friends about things that interest her friends but don't particularly interest her? We also had a lot of parallel play when my daughter was in elementary -- playing with the same toys but separately, rather than playing pretend together. (There was some of that too, but more parallel play than NT kids.)

good luck!


Fixed the above to say "She doesn't always have exactly the right filter for what's acceptable and what isn't, and she doesn't think to ask most of the time, she just does." which is what I meant.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:45     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
My now teenaged daughter was diagnosed with autism around age 11 or 12 and that was also around when she started sneaking candy (and leaving the wrappers all over the house under cushions etc) and even stole cash from my purse (to go buy more candy). I can also totally see her doing the wet pants thing, if it were a pair of pants she particularly liked. She always have exactly the right filter for what's acceptable and what isn't, and she doesn't think to ask most of the time, she just does.

Autism in girls can appear differently than autism in boys because girls can mask socially at earlier ages than boys can. So autism in girls might be caught later.

I can't speak to the rudeness to you and the family, etc. We get shouting sometimes, but only when things get very stressful for her. She knows we are on her side. So it could be something else, but some of this sounds like it could be autism.

How does your daughter do in back and forth conversations, especially on topics that don't particularly interest her? Can she give and take with friends about things that interest her friends but don't particularly interest her? We also had a lot of parallel play when my daughter was in elementary -- playing with the same toys but separately, rather than playing pretend together. (There was some of that too, but more parallel play than NT kids.)

good luck!
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:38     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP’s kid needs some fairly urgent advice but not necessarily inpatient. The only urgent care walk up clinics I’m aware of are Merrifield in Fairfax and Shepherd Pratt. That’s not a hospitalization. Grabbing some therapist when you don’t know what’s wrong, and therefore what to do, is not going to help.

I’d move over to a NAMI group pretty fast OP.


OP here, do you mean we should sign up as parents or her alone in a nami family support group? I am not sure how the Nami system works. Is there a therapist? Today is the first I’ve heard of nami. How is this different than a therapist in person?


Nami is a group of parents or patients as a self-support group. It’s free, confidential, and no therapist involved. However it has a lot of value if you’re looking for therapist or treatment recommendations in the mental health space.

Most DCUM special needs parents are here for ADHD, autism, and anxiety. I can’t really tell what’s up with your daughter of course, but such symptoms are more serious than the more typical DCUM stuff.


every symptom OP listed could be part of autism, adhd, puberty, and dysfunctional parenting. this child is not schizophrenic because they wanted to wear wet pants.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:36     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Therapy, yes--for her, for you, and family. But honestly, also, a nature focused sleepaway camp, ideally all girls, that doesn't allow cell phones..give her a break from the family and social media, give you a break from her, let someone else (counselor) work on the hygiene issues with some modeling from peers. Get a bunch of camp brochures and let her pick. This is not a punishment.



I can't see this ending well. While well-meaning, good kids, your regular teen camp counselor is NOT going to be equipped to deal with a struggling child like OP's DD and then there's the real possibility she would end up ostracized or bullied for her behavior.



OP here. Yes, I would love for my daughter to be able to do something like camp, but I don’t think it is a great idea at this stage. Also, it wasn’t the wet pants on a pile that was the problem , it was that her plan was to wear the sopping wet pants to school today.


Read Ross Greene and figure out how to talk with her about what is going on and how to deal with it. If she's outgrown her other pants and these are the only ones that fit, or if she gets teased when wearing other clothes, I could see why she felt this was her best option though obviously it wasn't a good choice. behavior is communication. What was she trying to communicate? How can she communicate her needs more effectively and how can you better meet them?


Definitely has not outgrown other pants. There were at least 20 other pants options. She wore those pants yesterday. That’s why they were in the wash. In fact they are my old pants that she has taken over. Black gap bootcut yoga. Womens large. Too long for her legs. What was she trying to communicate?? I have no idea. What I am concerned about was the disordered thinking that she thought wearing wet pants straight from the washing machine was a normal thing to do and a good idea, and her only option. She ended up wearing a different pair that is a brand new pair that she requested and got for Christmas, one of several brand new ones. But only after I took away the wet ones. That seems like something a toddler would do, not a middle schooler.


It’s weird behavior but kids are weird. At around that age I caught my little brother running his dirty socks under the sink before school - he said “I want to get them less crusty before I put them on.” She just really likes those pants.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:34     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP’s kid needs some fairly urgent advice but not necessarily inpatient. The only urgent care walk up clinics I’m aware of are Merrifield in Fairfax and Shepherd Pratt. That’s not a hospitalization. Grabbing some therapist when you don’t know what’s wrong, and therefore what to do, is not going to help.

I’d move over to a NAMI group pretty fast OP.


OP here, do you mean we should sign up as parents or her alone in a nami family support group? I am not sure how the Nami system works. Is there a therapist? Today is the first I’ve heard of nami. How is this different than a therapist in person?


Nami is a group of parents or patients as a self-support group. It’s free, confidential, and no therapist involved. However it has a lot of value if you’re looking for therapist or treatment recommendations in the mental health space.

Most DCUM special needs parents are here for ADHD, autism, and anxiety. I can’t really tell what’s up with your daughter of course, but such symptoms are more serious than the more typical DCUM stuff.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:23     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Therapy, yes--for her, for you, and family. But honestly, also, a nature focused sleepaway camp, ideally all girls, that doesn't allow cell phones..give her a break from the family and social media, give you a break from her, let someone else (counselor) work on the hygiene issues with some modeling from peers. Get a bunch of camp brochures and let her pick. This is not a punishment.



I can't see this ending well. While well-meaning, good kids, your regular teen camp counselor is NOT going to be equipped to deal with a struggling child like OP's DD and then there's the real possibility she would end up ostracized or bullied for her behavior.



OP here. Yes, I would love for my daughter to be able to do something like camp, but I don’t think it is a great idea at this stage. Also, it wasn’t the wet pants on a pile that was the problem , it was that her plan was to wear the sopping wet pants to school today.


Read Ross Greene and figure out how to talk with her about what is going on and how to deal with it. If she's outgrown her other pants and these are the only ones that fit, or if she gets teased when wearing other clothes, I could see why she felt this was her best option though obviously it wasn't a good choice. behavior is communication. What was she trying to communicate? How can she communicate her needs more effectively and how can you better meet them?


Definitely has not outgrown other pants. There were at least 20 other pants options. She wore those pants yesterday. That’s why they were in the wash. In fact they are my old pants that she has taken over. Black gap bootcut yoga. Womens large. Too long for her legs. What was she trying to communicate?? I have no idea. What I am concerned about was the disordered thinking that she thought wearing wet pants straight from the washing machine was a normal thing to do and a good idea, and her only option. She ended up wearing a different pair that is a brand new pair that she requested and got for Christmas, one of several brand new ones. But only after I took away the wet ones. That seems like something a toddler would do, not a middle schooler.


OP, don’t you don’t need to focus on the pants or what it means. As a mother of a teen, sometimes they do weird stuff. People with OCD do weird, inexplicable stuff, too. (I’m one of these people). One of her compulsions could be around these pants and she’s not telling you. You KNOW her OCD/anxiety is a problem. Why aren’t you medicating her for this? Why?
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 15:19     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:OP’s kid needs some fairly urgent advice but not necessarily inpatient. The only urgent care walk up clinics I’m aware of are Merrifield in Fairfax and Shepherd Pratt. That’s not a hospitalization. Grabbing some therapist when you don’t know what’s wrong, and therefore what to do, is not going to help.

I’d move over to a NAMI group pretty fast OP.


OP here, do you mean we should sign up as parents or her alone in a nami family support group? I am not sure how the Nami system works. Is there a therapist? Today is the first I’ve heard of nami. How is this different than a therapist in person?
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 14:33     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
Anonymous wrote:PP, I realized I phrased that in a confusing way. For my niece, it did result in a CPS visit and it really made things even harder for her parents and her. Don't wait on this.


Not the OP, but an earlier PP. What was your niece diagnosed with?
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2023 14:30     Subject: What does this behavior sound like??
OP’s kid needs some fairly urgent advice but not necessarily inpatient. The only urgent care walk up clinics I’m aware of are Merrifield in Fairfax and Shepherd Pratt. That’s not a hospitalization. Grabbing some therapist when you don’t know what’s wrong, and therefore what to do, is not going to help.

I’d move over to a NAMI group pretty fast OP.