Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been to a lot of different middle and high schools for travel basketball this season, and the condition of most of the schools is kind of depressing.

Exact situation with here and I have been shocked at how grimy/dirty/depressing the school buildings are...Annandale HS did not have working heat in its upstairs gym, Edison HS, LIberty MS, Jackson MS...all just grimy and depressing. The schools in Gainesville are lovely.

Gainesville was the boonies until the last 10-15 years. I would take a look at the population increase and age of it's schools. Of course they are newer and nicer, the area has all this new money from more and more suburban development. Same with Loudoun. Once it is fully built out, like Fairfax has been for decades, and the schools start to age and there is no more space for new development, the same problems will arise. This entire thread is built on an apples to oranges comparison. You really have to do the comparison with other school systems who have the same conditions. Then we can really peel back the layers and see if other places are truly doing it better. And then learn from them.

The problem is that people come up with argument like this and insist on “apples-to-apples” comparisons when the main focus ought to be on why the apple is now so bruised and about ready to be thrown into the garbage bin.

It’s one variation after another on the notion that the county is just now too old or too poor to have nice things any longer. Since schools were once one of the main reasons to live in this county, it’s a self-defeating line of argument.

PP from above. I think the county should do both of those things. But the reality is that Fairfax County is not, will never, and shouldn't ever, be a rich homogenous enclave a single mega school to fund. So why should we keep going green with envy over it. Better to study those districts similar to ours who have the nice things and see what they are doing and emulate it. While simultaneously trying to study and remediate what went wrong. Many call it the "Continuous Improvement Plan" and governments and corporations who are successful do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been to a lot of different middle and high schools for travel basketball this season, and the condition of most of the schools is kind of depressing.

Exact situation with here and I have been shocked at how grimy/dirty/depressing the school buildings are...Annandale HS did not have working heat in its upstairs gym, Edison HS, LIberty MS, Jackson MS...all just grimy and depressing. The schools in Gainesville are lovely.

Gainesville was the boonies until the last 10-15 years. I would take a look at the population increase and age of it's schools. Of course they are newer and nicer, the area has all this new money from more and more suburban development. Same with Loudoun. Once it is fully built out, like Fairfax has been for decades, and the schools start to age and there is no more space for new development, the same problems will arise. This entire thread is built on an apples to oranges comparison. You really have to do the comparison with other school systems who have the same conditions. Then we can really peel back the layers and see if other places are truly doing it better. And then learn from them.

The problem is that people come up with argument like this and insist on “apples-to-apples” comparisons when the main focus ought to be on why the apple is now so bruised and about ready to be thrown into the garbage bin.

It’s one variation after another on the notion that the county is just now too old or too poor to have nice things any longer. Since schools were once one of the main reasons to live in this county, it’s a self-defeating line of argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

Good private schools cost $40k a year plus and have more applicants than seats. They haven't expanded to meet demand and there is no reason to think the will. As far as new schools, the economics don't work at $18k (probably less because the average spend includes ELL and special ed students who cost far more) a year.

DP. Some schools won’t expand because selectivity is part of their brand but education is a market and there will be more supply (private school alternatives) if the demand increases. And the demand can arise even if a state contribution is a partial subsidy rather than a full subsidy.

FCPS has operated far too long as if it has a monopoly and, while that has never really been the case, the consequences of that type of thinking are starting to become more apparent.

If you're correct then why haven't any new privates opened? Basis is the only one. Surely if the demand is there, then someone would have taken advantage if all of these families who were desperate to leave could. Maybe it's because most schools in FCPS are good to excellent and those that aren't have families that couldn't remotely afford private school even with a voucher

Let’s see. Basis opened. Paul VI expanded and moved from Fairfax to Loudoun. Oakcrest expanded and moved from McLean to Vienna. Flint Hill and Trinity at Mountain View are getting more attention. The ups and downs at Basis show it’s not easy to establish a strong reputation for quality, but you’d be wrong if you don’t think FCPS is not pushing more people to explore alternatives, including private schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been to a lot of different middle and high schools for travel basketball this season, and the condition of most of the schools is kind of depressing.

Exact situation with here and I have been shocked at how grimy/dirty/depressing the school buildings are...Annandale HS did not have working heat in its upstairs gym, Edison HS, LIberty MS, Jackson MS...all just grimy and depressing. The schools in Gainesville are lovely.

Gainesville was the boonies until the last 10-15 years. I would take a look at the population increase and age of it's schools. Of course they are newer and nicer, the area has all this new money from more and more suburban development. Same with Loudoun. Once it is fully built out, like Fairfax has been for decades, and the schools start to age and there is no more space for new development, the same problems will arise. This entire thread is built on an apples to oranges comparison. You really have to do the comparison with other school systems who have the same conditions. Then we can really peel back the layers and see if other places are truly doing it better. And then learn from them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

This kind of statement shows how little people understand about public school mandates. The district cannot divest of facilities until enrollment projections render it unsustainable in perpetuity. So you'll have dwindling public funds trying to sustain the same infrastructure portfolio (see: DCPS) since basically no HS catchment area will ever decrease to that number. The overall public education experience will then continue to decline, and take home values with it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

Good private schools cost $40k a year plus and have more applicants than seats. They haven't expanded to meet demand and there is no reason to think the will. As far as new schools, the economics don't work at $18k (probably less because the average spend includes ELL and special ed students who cost far more) a year.

DP. Some schools won’t expand because selectivity is part of their brand but education is a market and there will be more supply (private school alternatives) if the demand increases. And the demand can arise even if a state contribution is a partial subsidy rather than a full subsidy.

FCPS has operated far too long as if it has a monopoly and, while that has never really been the case, the consequences of that type of thinking are starting to become more apparent.

If you're correct then why haven't any new privates opened? Basis is the only one. Surely if the demand is there, then someone would have taken advantage if all of these families who were desperate to leave could. Maybe it's because most schools in FCPS are good to excellent and those that aren't have families that couldn't remotely afford private school even with a voucher

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

Good private schools cost $40k a year plus and have more applicants than seats. They haven't expanded to meet demand and there is no reason to think the will. As far as new schools, the economics don't work at $18k (probably less because the average spend includes ELL and special ed students who cost far more) a year.

DP. Some schools won’t expand because selectivity is part of their brand but education is a market and there will be more supply (private school alternatives) if the demand increases. And the demand can arise even if a state contribution is a partial subsidy rather than a full subsidy.

FCPS has operated far too long as if it has a monopoly and, while that has never really been the case, the consequences of that type of thinking are starting to become more apparent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

Good private schools cost $40k a year plus and have more applicants than seats. They haven't expanded to meet demand and there is no reason to think the will. As far as new schools, the economics don't work at $18k (probably less because the average spend includes ELL and special ed students who cost far more) a year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Good private schools would expand, and new private schools will be built since there would be a market. Perhaps they could acquire vacant government school buildings as people overwhelmingly shift to private and FCPS enrollment plummets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been to a lot of different middle and high schools for travel basketball this season, and the condition of most of the schools is kind of depressing.

Exact situation with here and I have been shocked at how grimy/dirty/depressing the school buildings are...Annandale HS did not have working heat in its upstairs gym, Edison HS, LIberty MS, Jackson MS...all just grimy and depressing. The schools in Gainesville are lovely.

The New Loudon County Academy of Science, the other brand new schools in Loudon and Prince William, the new Poolesville High School project in Montgomery County, all the Arlington school projects like HB Woodlawn and WL, and schools in districts all over the country invest much more in their school buildings and campuses than FCPS. There’s no need to compare with Carmel HS to make the point.

FCPS is far and away the worst local public school district when it comes to planning and facilities management, and the School Board is useless. There are people with pensions or soon-to-be-getting farewell laurels who deserve to be in prison cells for their neglect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been to a lot of different middle and high schools for travel basketball this season, and the condition of most of the schools is kind of depressing.

Exact situation with here and I have been shocked at how grimy/dirty/depressing the school buildings are...Annandale HS did not have working heat in its upstairs gym, Edison HS, LIberty MS, Jackson MS...all just grimy and depressing. The schools in Gainesville are lovely.

The New Loudon County Academy of Science, the other brand new schools in Loudon and Prince William, the new Poolesville High School project in Montgomery County, all the Arlington school projects like HB Woodlawn and WL, and schools in districts all over the country invest much more in their school buildings and campuses than FCPS. There’s no need to compare with Carmel HS to make the point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Fcps is at 18k/student, it would help towards a place that is clean, safe, gun free and have no thugs

By DCUM standards this has been a pretty good discussion.

The contrast between beautiful Carmel HS and the smaller, and sadly in some cases decrepit and neglected, high schools in FCPS raises some interesting questions about what matters in public education. At what point do facilities become so run down and inadequate that they impede learning or demoralize students? If a school is immaculate but huge, do students feel like they are visiting their school, as much as attending it, if their actual opportunities to participate in school activities are limited by the school’s large enrollment.

I continue to be frustrated by the terribly poor planning in FCPS and the sad condition of too many schools in FCPS, and wish that we invested more in bricks and mortar and less in what ultimately strike me as wasteful and not especially beneficial payments to third-party consultants, but the responses have certainly surfaced some other relevant considerations.

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need vouchers, public schools have no accountability for how they spent their money, we are fed up and are thinking of moving to private even thought we are in the best mclean high pyramid

What private school do you plan on attending with your 10k voucher? Do you think that Catholic schools are going to double capacity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are free to move to Indiana. It would free up some classroom seats here!

The whole "if you don't like it leave" attitude is part of the reason the FARMS rate only keeps going up.

Blame the Board of Supervisors for approving more low income housing.