Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is a bad thing.
We are talking about procedures that have life-long consequences when these people are minors and do not have the critical thinking or judgment to know the full effects of their decisions.

+1 hear hear

Might not be PC to say it, but I am friends with 2 detransitioners. They are back to being cis women and the trauma they feel is beyond our imagination. They feel utterly betrayed and disillusioned. I have had to talk one of them out of some very dark moments.

Not everyone who experiences discomfort with their body needs to transition. There is a LOT else going on, and IMO this whole gender ideology thing has turned into a dangerous cult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've shared some or most of this before. I'm not sure if I'll check back much after this, because I know I'm about to be called a bunch of names and have my parenting and morals questioned. I know our story has helped people understand the perspective of parents with a trans child before, so I'll give it another go.

My son is trans. I always knew he wasn't cishet, but I didn't even know what cishet meant when I first realized he wasn't that. He'd been in therapy for a while before coming out, dealing with anxiety and possibly depression. He came out in middle school as trans, and we started with therapy, no medial treatment. When he came out, he was so worried about telling us. I remember thinking that it all made so much sense, and DH said the same thing.

Probably a year after starting therapy with a gender specialist, we put him on a hormone blocker. Continued therapy. About 18 months after that, which is slightly longer than they usually recommend being on a blocker without adding other hormones, we added testosterone. Eventually we dropped the blocker and only did testosterone. He fully transitioned socially.

We agreed to hormones before he turned 18, but had planned to wait for any other procedures. Unfortunately, the kid was a D cup, and binding is so uncomfortable. It's also necessary for passing. I tried wearing a binder just to see what it was like, and couldn't deal with it. So we investigated top surgery. In the end, we decided to go ahead and let him do it the summer before his senior year.

We went back and forth with the decision for a while, but eventually agreed that it would be the best choice for him and for our peace of mind. First and foremost, he was already presenting as a young man, and it made sense to let him start college with his outsides matching his insides as much as possible. Binding sucks, and he was always uncomfortable. We were worried about his safety-it would be so much easier for someone to out him in a new environment if he was binding. He'd never had surgery before, and we didn't want him to have to go through his first surgical experience without our support. If we did this while he was a minor, we would have access to his records and control of the decision making process, being able to choose the doctor, helping with pain management, etc. If we made him wait until he was an adult, we'd lose that ability, and if he felt we weren't supportive of him having the surgery he might not want us to be involved at all. Plus, he was just so damn uncomfortable having large breasts, he probably would've had a reduction at some point even if he weren't trans.

It was freeing. He can wear t shirts. He doesn't have to wear layers to hide the binder. He doesn't have to be physically uncomfortable all the time. Of all the parenting decisions we've ever made, it's probably had the most positive effect on him.

Before we knew we had a trans child, I always thought that being supportive emotionally but delaying medical treatment until 18 was the way to go. But like so much of parenting, theory is different from practical experience.

What my son sees when politicians propose and pass these laws is that people wish he didn't exist, or think he doesn't deserve the same rights as them. He's an adult now, and he handles it reasonably well, but it's depressing to be called and treated like a deviant, pervert, and second class citizen. Not that anyone who wants to prevent him from getting treatment really cares about his mental health, but I wish they'd stop acting like they want to protect kids.

I understand and support you. It sounds like you spent years closely assessing your child and I hope he is doing well.

I'm the PP with two detransitioner friends. My point is that not all parents are as careful as you may have been, and doctors have a vested interest to profit and not be cancelled. Trans medicine is hugely profitable, as others have mentioned. And some parents are acting out of cult brainwashing rather than independent, critical thinking. It's led to a lot of harm that I have personally witnessed. We aren't nearly as forward thinking about gender and sexuality as prevailing discourse would have us believe.

But like another person said, these are not easy topics.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Some things you know, like your gender. Some things can't wait or won't have the same results if you wait, like medical treatment. Some things should never be tolerable, like raping children. I don't see how allowing my child to have treatment for gender dysphoria after much consideration and consulting multiple doctors equates to marrying a child off and letting an adult have sex with her on a regular basis. I'm not sure why that's confusing for you either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've shared some or most of this before. I'm not sure if I'll check back much after this, because I know I'm about to be called a bunch of names and have my parenting and morals questioned. I know our story has helped people understand the perspective of parents with a trans child before, so I'll give it another go.

My son is trans. I always knew he wasn't cishet, but I didn't even know what cishet meant when I first realized he wasn't that. He'd been in therapy for a while before coming out, dealing with anxiety and possibly depression. He came out in middle school as trans, and we started with therapy, no medial treatment. When he came out, he was so worried about telling us. I remember thinking that it all made so much sense, and DH said the same thing.

Probably a year after starting therapy with a gender specialist, we put him on a hormone blocker. Continued therapy. About 18 months after that, which is slightly longer than they usually recommend being on a blocker without adding other hormones, we added testosterone. Eventually we dropped the blocker and only did testosterone. He fully transitioned socially.

We agreed to hormones before he turned 18, but had planned to wait for any other procedures. Unfortunately, the kid was a D cup, and binding is so uncomfortable. It's also necessary for passing. I tried wearing a binder just to see what it was like, and couldn't deal with it. So we investigated top surgery. In the end, we decided to go ahead and let him do it the summer before his senior year.

We went back and forth with the decision for a while, but eventually agreed that it would be the best choice for him and for our peace of mind. First and foremost, he was already presenting as a young man, and it made sense to let him start college with his outsides matching his insides as much as possible. Binding sucks, and he was always uncomfortable. We were worried about his safety-it would be so much easier for someone to out him in a new environment if he was binding. He'd never had surgery before, and we didn't want him to have to go through his first surgical experience without our support. If we did this while he was a minor, we would have access to his records and control of the decision making process, being able to choose the doctor, helping with pain management, etc. If we made him wait until he was an adult, we'd lose that ability, and if he felt we weren't supportive of him having the surgery he might not want us to be involved at all. Plus, he was just so damn uncomfortable having large breasts, he probably would've had a reduction at some point even if he weren't trans.

It was freeing. He can wear t shirts. He doesn't have to wear layers to hide the binder. He doesn't have to be physically uncomfortable all the time. Of all the parenting decisions we've ever made, it's probably had the most positive effect on him.

Before we knew we had a trans child, I always thought that being supportive emotionally but delaying medical treatment until 18 was the way to go. But like so much of parenting, theory is different from practical experience.

What my son sees when politicians propose and pass these laws is that people wish he didn't exist, or think he doesn't deserve the same rights as them. He's an adult now, and he handles it reasonably well, but it's depressing to be called and treated like a deviant, pervert, and second class citizen. Not that anyone who wants to prevent him from getting treatment really cares about his mental health, but I wish they'd stop acting like they want to protect kids.

I understand and support you. It sounds like you spent years closely assessing your child and I hope he is doing well.

I'm the PP with two detransitioner friends. My point is that not all parents are as careful as you may have been, and doctors have a vested interest to profit and not be cancelled. Trans medicine is hugely profitable, as others have mentioned. And some parents are acting out of cult brainwashing rather than independent, critical thinking. It's led to a lot of harm that I have personally witnessed. We aren't nearly as forward thinking about gender and sexuality as prevailing discourse would have us believe.

But like another person said, these are not easy topics.

Anonymous wrote:I've shared some or most of this before. I'm not sure if I'll check back much after this, because I know I'm about to be called a bunch of names and have my parenting and morals questioned. I know our story has helped people understand the perspective of parents with a trans child before, so I'll give it another go.

My son is trans. I always knew he wasn't cishet, but I didn't even know what cishet meant when I first realized he wasn't that. He'd been in therapy for a while before coming out, dealing with anxiety and possibly depression. He came out in middle school as trans, and we started with therapy, no medial treatment. When he came out, he was so worried about telling us. I remember thinking that it all made so much sense, and DH said the same thing.

Probably a year after starting therapy with a gender specialist, we put him on a hormone blocker. Continued therapy. About 18 months after that, which is slightly longer than they usually recommend being on a blocker without adding other hormones, we added testosterone. Eventually we dropped the blocker and only did testosterone. He fully transitioned socially.

We agreed to hormones before he turned 18, but had planned to wait for any other procedures. Unfortunately, the kid was a D cup, and binding is so uncomfortable. It's also necessary for passing. I tried wearing a binder just to see what it was like, and couldn't deal with it. So we investigated top surgery. In the end, we decided to go ahead and let him do it the summer before his senior year.

We went back and forth with the decision for a while, but eventually agreed that it would be the best choice for him and for our peace of mind. First and foremost, he was already presenting as a young man, and it made sense to let him start college with his outsides matching his insides as much as possible. Binding sucks, and he was always uncomfortable. We were worried about his safety-it would be so much easier for someone to out him in a new environment if he was binding. He'd never had surgery before, and we didn't want him to have to go through his first surgical experience without our support. If we did this while he was a minor, we would have access to his records and control of the decision making process, being able to choose the doctor, helping with pain management, etc. If we made him wait until he was an adult, we'd lose that ability, and if he felt we weren't supportive of him having the surgery he might not want us to be involved at all. Plus, he was just so damn uncomfortable having large breasts, he probably would've had a reduction at some point even if he weren't trans.

It was freeing. He can wear t shirts. He doesn't have to wear layers to hide the binder. He doesn't have to be physically uncomfortable all the time. Of all the parenting decisions we've ever made, it's probably had the most positive effect on him.

Before we knew we had a trans child, I always thought that being supportive emotionally but delaying medical treatment until 18 was the way to go. But like so much of parenting, theory is different from practical experience.

What my son sees when politicians propose and pass these laws is that people wish he didn't exist, or think he doesn't deserve the same rights as them. He's an adult now, and he handles it reasonably well, but it's depressing to be called and treated like a deviant, pervert, and second class citizen. Not that anyone who wants to prevent him from getting treatment really cares about his mental health, but I wish they'd stop acting like they want to protect kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Some things you know, like your gender. Some things can't wait or won't have the same results if you wait, like medical treatment. Some things should never be tolerable, like raping children. I don't see how allowing my child to have treatment for gender dysphoria after much consideration and consulting multiple doctors equates to marrying a child off and letting an adult have sex with her on a regular basis. I'm not sure why that's confusing for you either.

The point is *consent*. In the marriage and rape examples, a child is not capable of giving consent. Yet you're arguing a child IS capable of giving consent to surgically changing his/her body.

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what I would do as a parent if my kid struggles with his body and gender. I think I would try to pull out all the stops, therapy, change schools, completely change the whole family's lifestyle, move to another country/culture, etc. before supporting surgery or sterilization.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is a bad thing.
We are talking about procedures that have life-long consequences when these people are minors and do not have the critical thinking or judgment to know the full effects of their decisions.

+1 hear hear

Might not be PC to say it, but I am friends with 2 detransitioners. They are back to being cis women and the trauma they feel is beyond our imagination. They feel utterly betrayed and disillusioned. I have had to talk one of them out of some very dark moments.

Not everyone who experiences discomfort with their body needs to transition. There is a LOT else going on, and IMO this whole gender ideology thing has turned into a dangerous cult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

Some things you know, like your gender. Some things can't wait or won't have the same results if you wait, like medical treatment. Some things should never be tolerable, like raping children. I don't see how allowing my child to have treatment for gender dysphoria after much consideration and consulting multiple doctors equates to marrying a child off and letting an adult have sex with her on a regular basis. I'm not sure why that's confusing for you either.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that most of those in favor of minors having "gender-affirming" surgeries and hormonal treatment are probably also completely aghast at the idea of Wyoming's marriage law - which currently has no minimum age. In that case, you find it reprehensible that children could be married (I do too, btw). You probably also know that it's considered statutory rape if an adult engages in sex with a minor. Why? Because according to the law, minors are not capable of consenting to sex with an adult.

And yet in this instance, you're claiming that a minor - a child - should be able to decide to have life-changing SURGERY and hormone treatment. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.