Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 21:35     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:White House, DoD, IC and others seriously need to fix their whole classification program, to keep much better track of what documents are checked out by whom, where they currently are, when they are due back, ensuring they are returned when due back, and tracking whether or not they were downgraded/declassified, by whom, when, and by what authority.

This horsecrap makes one think there are middle school libraries that do a better job of managing check-in-check-out than our federal government does.


This is what I said in the previous thread. All these former politicians need to been scrutinized and the document management process sewn up. Enough of the honor system at higher levels.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 21:10     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
I understand it's illegal, however,
with stakes this high I'm wondering why someone like say Pence would't just burn any papers laying around that don't belong there.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 21:02     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The cover up is always worse than the crime.

So Trump’s guilty of obstruction.
Biden is guilty of waiting before disclosing.
And Pence is not guilty.



Biden disclosed it to NARA the day they were found and they picked them up the next day. But nice try.


So then the media is guilty for not reporting this before the election.
DP
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 20:10     Subject: Re:Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So now we have...
A former president who is running for president (resulting in a special counsel).

A former VP and current president who is likely running for re-election (resulting in another special counsel).

And a former VP who is also potentially running for president. Do we need yet another special counsel?


Both Pence and Biden have committed a crime here and should be in jail.


Crimes require intent and there's no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the required intent.



Wow, so you think they just brought classified info home for no reason.


If they were charged (which they won't be), they would defend by saying they didn't know what was in the boxes and somebody probably packed and shipped them. And to help prove that up, they could point to the fact that they immediately turned them over when they discovered them. The government would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that was not true and in fact they took the documents intentionally. There is no evidence in the public domain that would support the government's case.

By the way, that is what would have happened in Trump's case too. But instead of turning them over, he lied, moved the documents around to try to hide them, had his lawyers lie, etc. Basically, he handed the government a bunch of evidence of intent and also committed other crimes in the process.


Trump is classic “it’s not the crime, it’s the cover up”


Every ex-president has classified documents. So their was no coverup.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 19:58     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The cover up is always worse than the crime.

So Trump’s guilty of obstruction.
Biden is guilty of waiting before disclosing.
And Pence is not guilty.



Huh? Biden didn’t wait. His lawyers found the documents and turned them over immediately.


If you mean immediately after the November election, I would agree.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/joe-biden-has-no-regrets-over-hiding-classified-docs/
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 19:20     Subject: Re:Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So now we have...
A former president who is running for president (resulting in a special counsel).

A former VP and current president who is likely running for re-election (resulting in another special counsel).

And a former VP who is also potentially running for president. Do we need yet another special counsel?


Both Pence and Biden have committed a crime here and should be in jail.


Crimes require intent and there's no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the required intent.


Crimes most certainly do NOT require intent.


Most do. Not a lot of strict liability laws out there. Statutory rape comes to mind. And ??? You need the request it’s mens rae.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 19:16     Subject: Re:Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So now we have...
A former president who is running for president (resulting in a special counsel).

A former VP and current president who is likely running for re-election (resulting in another special counsel).

And a former VP who is also potentially running for president. Do we need yet another special counsel?


Both Pence and Biden have committed a crime here and should be in jail.


Crimes require intent and there's no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the required intent.



Wow, so you think they just brought classified info home for no reason.


If they were charged (which they won't be), they would defend by saying they didn't know what was in the boxes and somebody probably packed and shipped them. And to help prove that up, they could point to the fact that they immediately turned them over when they discovered them. The government would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that was not true and in fact they took the documents intentionally. There is no evidence in the public domain that would support the government's case.

By the way, that is what would have happened in Trump's case too. But instead of turning them over, he lied, moved the documents around to try to hide them, had his lawyers lie, etc. Basically, he handed the government a bunch of evidence of intent and also committed other crimes in the process.


Trump is classic “it’s not the crime, it’s the cover up”
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:36     Subject: Re:Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So now we have...
A former president who is running for president (resulting in a special counsel).

A former VP and current president who is likely running for re-election (resulting in another special counsel).

And a former VP who is also potentially running for president. Do we need yet another special counsel?


Both Pence and Biden have committed a crime here and should be in jail.


Crimes require intent and there's no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the required intent.


Crimes most certainly do NOT require intent.


All of the potentially relevant ones do. If you disagree, post the statute.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:29     Subject: Re:Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So now we have...
A former president who is running for president (resulting in a special counsel).

A former VP and current president who is likely running for re-election (resulting in another special counsel).

And a former VP who is also potentially running for president. Do we need yet another special counsel?


Both Pence and Biden have committed a crime here and should be in jail.


Crimes require intent and there's no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the required intent.


Crimes most certainly do NOT require intent.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:18     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:Trump told the Russians about classified information we got from a secret Israeli source. He showed classified documents to journalists and randos to impress them. He was a reckless moron about classified information.


Yes but in this case, the only difference is that Trump is obstructing the investigation, while Biden and Pence are not.

Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:15     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
They have to be doing a sweep of all former Presidents and VPs.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:14     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Trump told the Russians about classified information we got from a secret Israeli source. He showed classified documents to journalists and randos to impress them. He was a reckless moron about classified information.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:14     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Them not knowing what was in the boxes isn’t an excuse. If the aides packing the boxes weren’t cleared then they shouldn’t have been handling classified documents at all.

This wouldn’t work for a regular fed.

Moreover, even if being charged requires intent, when I was fired for talking about news articles with my parents, they sunk my fed career and made it impossible for me to ever get a clearance again. I had no recourse for objective appeal. This is the reality for many more regular feds than people realize. So while of course I’m happy there were no charges, they destroyed my government career.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:09     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
Anonymous wrote:
The cover up is always worse than the crime.

So Trump’s guilty of obstruction.
Biden is guilty of waiting before disclosing.
And Pence is not guilty.



Huh? Biden didn’t wait. His lawyers found the documents and turned them over immediately.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2023 18:08     Subject: Classified documents found at fmr VP Pence home
It just Trump loyalists a DOJ doing their thing. DOJ is run by Russia for Trump.