Anonymous wrote:Nobody's being spoken to in Mandarin "all day at school" at DCI. This wasn't happening at YY either.

The only DCI Chinese track students who speak the language well are the handful who've have had at least one native-speaking adult in the home for years who requires the kids to speak Chinese. If you're a native speaker of Mandarin and you've spent time around YY and DCI kids for years speaking Chinese, you know what I'm talking about.

Even the most advanced Mandarin speakers in DCI's HS struggle to communicate in Chinese in view of the fact that they've been studying the language for more than a decade. These kids generally can't score high (6s-7s) on any IB Diploma Higher Level subject. What happens is that hardly any of these kids earn IB Diploma points totals in the high 30s or 40s, which is routine at half a dozen public IBD programs in this Metro area. Even so, DCI still gets some decent college acceptances.

If DCI parents minded the school's mediocre IBD scores, they'd pay for WIS or move to the burbs for one of the IBD programs where most students score high. The list isn't long: Washington-Liberty in Arlington, 3 or 4 programs in Fairfax, Bethesda Chevy Chase's school-within-a-school program or Richard Montgomery in Rockville (test-in, 8th grade, 10% admitted).

So tired of the same Chinese mom here saying the same thing ad nauseam and giving false information about MoCo schools.

First, if you don't have a kid at DCI, stop trolling the board on every DCI thread. This is what happens on every thread is back and forth about the damn Chinese from the same person. Get a life.

Second, if you have a kid at DCI and are not happy about no native speakers then move to where there are. Some families at DCI who are not native, like PP above, do prioritize the language. Some don’t and are happy their kid understands it and can speak it but are not proficient. Some families are new and just beginning the language. You don’t see anyone else’s perspective but your own self absorbed one with what you want for your kid. Just go to WIS then if you want to stay in the city with all the other self absorbed entitled parents.

Lastly, NO, most kids in the MoCo program are NOT routinely scoring in the high 30’s and 40. This is your perception which is not reality based at all. if RM which attracts the top 1% in MoCo has only a 70% pass rate then that clearly tells you that. This is pass rate so the 70% left that pass are not all scoring so high. I would bet their IB averages is probably in the 33 or 34 range at best.

DCI feeder families who aren't serious about language immersion but are serious about core subjects better off at Latin, BASIS, ITS, Stuart Hobson etc. if they can get spot.

New poster. OK, great, but if your kid scores poorly IBD Chinese exams eventually, you may wind up wishing that you'd listened to the critics.

Hint: if the YY-DCI approach to teaching Mandarin represented best practices, MoCo, Cal and NYC public Chinese immersion programs would have embraced it by now.

In your shoes, I'd prioritize immersion summer programs if you can swing them, rather than, er, ranting about DCI haters here.

Signed
Dad who scored 3 on IBD standard level Spanish thinking I was on track for a 6 or 7

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's being spoken to in Mandarin "all day at school" at DCI. This wasn't happening at YY either.

The only DCI Chinese track students who speak the language well are the handful who've have had at least one native-speaking adult in the home for years who requires the kids to speak Chinese. If you're a native speaker of Mandarin and you've spent time around YY and DCI kids for years speaking Chinese, you know what I'm talking about.

Even the most advanced Mandarin speakers in DCI's HS struggle to communicate in Chinese in view of the fact that they've been studying the language for more than a decade. These kids generally can't score high (6s-7s) on any IB Diploma Higher Level subject. What happens is that hardly any of these kids earn IB Diploma points totals in the high 30s or 40s, which is routine at half a dozen public IBD programs in this Metro area. Even so, DCI still gets some decent college acceptances.

If DCI parents minded the school's mediocre IBD scores, they'd pay for WIS or move to the burbs for one of the IBD programs where most students score high. The list isn't long: Washington-Liberty in Arlington, 3 or 4 programs in Fairfax, Bethesda Chevy Chase's school-within-a-school program or Richard Montgomery in Rockville (test-in, 8th grade, 10% admitted).

I'm the PP you're resplying to.

1) Maybe read the whole post before you go off on your rant. They went on an ALL DAY FIELD TRIP yesterday, and speaking Mandarin on the bus, in the restaurant, and on the walks was required. Did kids probably slip into English here and there? Probably. But it's so rare that such a big group of kids travel together like that, I've heard from multiple parents that their kids reported they were surprised they did actually speak Mandarin most of the day. NOWHERE did I say they speak Mandarin all day at DCI. Read before ranting.

2) You're yet another of those "You can't speak Mandarin well unless you have a native speaker at home" folks. Wow, it must really bother you that my kids, and sooooo many more that came out of Yu Ying with ZERO Mandarin speakers at home other than maybe siblings that also attend YY... it must really bother you that time and time again when we encounter strangers speaking Mandarin or we go somewhere we know Mandarin is spoken, people are always shocked and comment over and over "Wow, your child speaks Chinese Chinese, not American Chinese!" and other comments like that, and the kids have full conversations and undrestand alll that is said and mostly can reply with what they mean or ask in Chinese how to say whatever word they're struggling with. Over and over. For YEARS.

But, then again, it wouldn't be DCUM without YY haters. DCI is more hit or miss and of course isn't 50:50 like Yu Ying was, but we're very happy she still has 2 classes/day in Mandarin. And trips like Monday.

The word about how tough IBD language exams actually are, because they emphasize speaking (unlike AP), is starting to trickle down to the DCI feeder and middle school families.

DCI parents who've been told by teachers and admins that their kids' language skills are great for years can be shocked when their 17 and 18 year olds score 2s, 3s and 4s out of 7 possible points, particularly with Chinese and French.

More of the UMC middle school and high school families are enrolling in summer immersion programs. Some are enrolling in weekend heritage language programs in the burbs.

Nobody's being spoken to in Mandarin "all day at school" at DCI. This wasn't happening at YY either.

The only DCI Chinese track students who speak the language well are the handful who've have had at least one native-speaking adult in the home for years who requires the kids to speak Chinese. If you're a native speaker of Mandarin and you've spent time around YY and DCI kids for years speaking Chinese, you know what I'm talking about.

Even the most advanced Mandarin speakers in DCI's HS struggle to communicate in Chinese in view of the fact that they've been studying the language for more than a decade. These kids generally can't score high (6s-7s) on any IB Diploma Higher Level subject. What happens is that hardly any of these kids earn IB Diploma points totals in the high 30s or 40s, which is routine at half a dozen public IBD programs in this Metro area. Even so, DCI still gets some decent college acceptances.

If DCI parents minded the school's mediocre IBD scores, they'd pay for WIS or move to the burbs for one of the IBD programs where most students score high. The list isn't long: Washington-Liberty in Arlington, 3 or 4 programs in Fairfax, Bethesda Chevy Chase's school-within-a-school program or Richard Montgomery in Rockville (test-in, 8th grade, 10% admitted).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These DCI threads are so tiring.

If DCI IB is so great explain why DCI is so bad at teaching the fundamentals. Here are the 8th grade PARCC scores that someone posted earlier:

DCI:

ELA 48.73%
Math 33.05%

BASIS

ELA 85.22%
Math 73.3%

They’re probably not awful. They just get lazy MC kids that were in feeders to “escape” DCPS and have only ever put minimal work into school and their language. Unlike BASIS which self-selects kids that are able and willing to work hard. By the time they hit DCI it’s too late (unless you want a much different atmosphere) and the test scores reflect that.

Again we seem to wind up at the same conclusion someone early on started with: if we're going to compare BASIS, Latin and DCI, they are very different schools, with different strengths and different challenges. And kids who don't do well in one might do very well in another.

I worked for years as an admin in a different urban school district and my wife is a middle school teacher in a DCPS school right now. Our DS goes to DCI, is doing fine, and we do have him do extra Math & English in a few ways but we looked at BASIS when he was in 4th grade and we felt DCI was a better fit. And we're happy with that decision because overall we feel like he's had good teachers at DCI.

And we'd feel that way even apart from language, but today his Chinese teacher took 75 upper level Chinese language learners out for Hotpot to celebrate the Lunar New Year and it was a big chunk of the school day (they notified parents and we had the option to keep our kids in school in regular classes instead of the field trip) but to spend the day speaking Chinese and going to a very traditional Chinese restaurant to eat in and learn the various things they learned... Language IS a big reason we also chose DCI and days like today cement it further as the right choice for our family.

That said, I totally understand and agree with those in lower level Chinese courses, I can see how there might be less rigor and less differentiation (or almost none) and that would be a big issue if we were in that situation. Also middle-school-aged kids are so dramatic and there's so much developing socially, Chinese is probably SUCH a hard language to teach to 11-14 yr olds as a new language. It needs to be figured out at DCI, but the Yu Ying kids who are 8th graders now started Chinese at 4 yrs old, it is WAY easier to get 4 yr olds to be quiet and just go with the fact that suddenly they're being spoken to in Mandarin all day at school. And also, it was all day. Kids new to Mandarin at DCI are only having a few classes a day and that makes it very hard to learn too but not many alternatives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These DCI threads are so tiring.

If DCI IB is so great explain why DCI is so bad at teaching the fundamentals. Here are the 8th grade PARCC scores that someone posted earlier:

DCI:

ELA 48.73%
Math 33.05%

BASIS

ELA 85.22%
Math 73.3%

They’re probably not awful. They just get lazy MC kids that were in feeders to “escape” DCPS and have only ever put minimal work into school and their language. Unlike BASIS which self-selects kids that are able and willing to work hard. By the time they hit DCI it’s too late (unless you want a much different atmosphere) and the test scores reflect that.

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how the some of the privileged on here are so oblivious and judgmental and ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCI scores in the bottom half of the word in IB scores.

Not impressed.

There are schools in India in areas with a fraction of the income of the DMV that do better in IB.

True. But at least DCI does better than Banneker or Eastern.

However, Montgomery County IB runs circles around it.

You can move to MC, apply for their IB program and basically have a 10% chance of getting a spot.

They just implemented a lottery so if your kid meets their admissions criteria, it’s now a lottery instead of a committee selecting. Still around 10% odds if they get similar number of applicants as in the past.

Good luck with that. They are also very well established programs that have been around for a while. Totally different than DCI program but if you self select only the top 1-2% kids in the city, sure comparison is similar.

What are you talking about? The IB Diploma at Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville? There are SEVEN high school IB programs in MoCo but only the one at Richard Montgomery is an application magnet. The Bethesda Chevy Chase IBD program is just as high-performing as RM, but not test-in. A few of the others IBD programs in MoCo are higher-performing than DCI. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high/ib.aspx#tabs-4

Did you even read anything in the link above? Do you know anything about IB in MoCo?

The 2 good IB programs are magnets and that is Richard Montgomery and Blair. Even at that, the most recent pass rate at RM is only in the 70%

BCC only about 15-20% students do IB and it’s basically a school within a school. Vast majority of students do not do IB and the IB offerings are not vast. BTW all students there can take IB classes so some kids might take 1 or 2 IB.

The rest are pretty weak and not worth mentioning and all in link but 1 said the kid needs to meet academic requirements. If you think these programs are higher performing than DCI, tell us their IB averages or exactly what basis are you making such a statement?

You're off. Untrue that ALL students can take IBD classes at BCC. Students need to take tough pre-IB prerequisites and do well in them to qualify. There isn't an IB Diploma Program at Blair Montgomery, never has been. You must be confusing the Blair CAP (Communications Art Program) with IBD. Several of the MoCo IBD programs post average points totals of around 30--Rockville, Einstein and Kennedy--just like DCI.

So Blair is magnet but not IB, all the schools you mention above self select with the most dramatic self selection being RM and then next BCC.

Then rest of the schools you mentioned also self select since there are academic requirements. Then you say their averages are similar to DCI.

So exactly how does MOCO IB runs circles around DCI? If you self select the top 1% at RM or top 15% of the top 20% kids in county at BCC (my rough estimate for BCC) the IB scores might be higher. BTW you haven’t said what the IB scores are for those schools.

Anonymous wrote:These DCI threads are so tiring.

If DCI IB is so great explain why DCI is so bad at teaching the fundamentals. Here are the 8th grade PARCC scores that someone posted earlier:

DCI:

ELA 48.73%
Math 33.05%

BASIS

ELA 85.22%
Math 73.3%

They’re probably not awful. They just get lazy MC kids that were in feeders to “escape” DCPS and have only ever put minimal work into school and their language. Unlike BASIS which self-selects kids that are able and willing to work hard. By the time they hit DCI it’s too late (unless you want a much different atmosphere) and the test scores reflect that.

These DCI threads are so tiring.

If DCI IB is so great explain why DCI is so bad at teaching the fundamentals. Here are the 8th grade PARCC scores that someone posted earlier:

DCI:

ELA 48.73%
Math 33.05%

BASIS

ELA 85.22%
Math 73.3%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCI scores in the bottom half of the word in IB scores.

Not impressed.

There are schools in India in areas with a fraction of the income of the DMV that do better in IB.

True. But at least DCI does better than Banneker or Eastern.

However, Montgomery County IB runs circles around it.

You can move to MC, apply for their IB program and basically have a 10% chance of getting a spot.

They just implemented a lottery so if your kid meets their admissions criteria, it’s now a lottery instead of a committee selecting. Still around 10% odds if they get similar number of applicants as in the past.

Good luck with that. They are also very well established programs that have been around for a while. Totally different than DCI program but if you self select only the top 1-2% kids in the city, sure comparison is similar.

What are you talking about? The IB Diploma at Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville? There are SEVEN high school IB programs in MoCo but only the one at Richard Montgomery is an application magnet. The Bethesda Chevy Chase IBD program is just as high-performing as RM, but not test-in. A few of the others IBD programs in MoCo are higher-performing than DCI. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high/ib.aspx#tabs-4

Did you even read anything in the link above? Do you know anything about IB in MoCo?

The 2 good IB programs are magnets and that is Richard Montgomery and Blair. Even at that, the most recent pass rate at RM is only in the 70%

BCC only about 15-20% students do IB and it’s basically a school within a school. Vast majority of students do not do IB and the IB offerings are not vast. BTW all students there can take IB classes so some kids might take 1 or 2 IB.

The rest are pretty weak and not worth mentioning and all in link but 1 said the kid needs to meet academic requirements. If you think these programs are higher performing than DCI, tell us their IB averages or exactly what basis are you making such a statement?

You're off. Untrue that ALL students can take IBD classes at BCC. Students need to take tough pre-IB prerequisites and do well in them to qualify. There isn't an IB Diploma Program at Blair Montgomery, never has been. You must be confusing the Blair CAP (Communications Art Program) with IBD. Several of the MoCo IBD programs post average points totals of around 30--Rockville, Einstein and Kennedy--just like DCI.

But rigor (not necessarily in the form of HW) is needed in more than just the target language and math classes. Our concern is that apart from these subjects, there is no differentiation. How are students differentiated in English reading and writing? In science? Without any tracking in those subjects it seems difficult for capable students to meet their potential. We all know DC is anti-tracking but for IB success it seems essential and it’s not clear why math and the foreign language classes are the only subjects offering different levels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The anecdotes and scores at DCI discussed above are consistent with what we have heard. While I can agree with a philosophy about minimizing homework during elementary school years, I do believe homework is essential beginning in middle school. We were shocked when current DCI MS students told us they did not have homework. More rigor and tracking in MS would inevitably help raise IB scores in HS but we didn’t get the impression that this is a priority at DCI. I think families have to go in with their eyes open just like at any of the other schools and think about which part(s) of their child’s education they are prioritizing and which part(s) they are capable of supplementing to fill in gaps.

DCI parent here, and seriously wondering which teachers all these kids who have "no homework" have?? I believe kids are telling you this, but it is SO inconsistent with our experience with both kids, it's really puzzling. My kid who is now in 8th grade, granted 6th grade was lockdown year, so can't say she had a ton of homework. But 7th grade she went back in person and she is a good student but was pretty stressed out with how much homework she had on a regular basis. This year 8th grade for her is more manageable because she's learning how to manage her homework.

Our oldest definitely had homework all 3 yrs of middle school but it did also ramp up a lot more in 7th and 8th. But he had it in 6th too.

So no idea who these kids with no homework, who their teachers are, but as I talk to other DCI parents I do not hear anyone saying their kid has no homework.

My 7th grader can do most of her homework during her hour-long commute to DCI from SE via public transportation. She doesn't seem to get more than around an hour of homework per weekday. We enroll her in extra academics/tutoring on-line to bump up her homework. She gets maybe 15-minutes worth of homework in her language class, not nearly enough to really learn the language, so we supplement. We will be looking for a more rigorous HS experience.

I'm the PP you replied to, fair enough, I can understand that take. My daughter had way more language homework on most days, but she came from a feeder school so if your daughter is new to her language, we didn't have that experience at DCI. If she came from years at a feeder school, what language is she learning? But again, fair enough that the rigor that is at DCI isn't consistent enough.

Language is tracked so I assume the higher performing kids in the higher language courses will have more rigor, higher expectations, and likely along with that more homework especially reading and writing

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCI scores in the bottom half of the word in IB scores.

Not impressed.

There are schools in India in areas with a fraction of the income of the DMV that do better in IB.

True. But at least DCI does better than Banneker or Eastern.

However, Montgomery County IB runs circles around it.

You can move to MC, apply for their IB program and basically have a 10% chance of getting a spot.

They just implemented a lottery so if your kid meets their admissions criteria, it’s now a lottery instead of a committee selecting. Still around 10% odds if they get similar number of applicants as in the past.

Good luck with that. They are also very well established programs that have been around for a while. Totally different than DCI program but if you self select only the top 1-2% kids in the city, sure comparison is similar.

What are you talking about? The IB Diploma at Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville? There are SEVEN high school IB programs in MoCo but only the one at Richard Montgomery is an application magnet. The Bethesda Chevy Chase IBD program is just as high-performing as RM, but not test-in. A few of the others IBD programs in MoCo are higher-performing than DCI. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/high/ib.aspx#tabs-4

Did you even read anything in the link above? Do you know anything about IB in MoCo?

The 2 good IB programs are magnets and that is Richard Montgomery and Blair. Even at that, the most recent pass rate at RM is only in the 70%

BCC only about 15-20% students do IB and it’s basically a school within a school. Vast majority of students do not do IB and the IB offerings are not vast. BTW all students there can take IB classes so some kids might take 1 or 2 IB.

The rest are pretty weak and not worth mentioning and all in link but 1 said the kid needs to meet academic requirements. If you think these programs are higher performing than DCI, tell us their IB averages or exactly what basis are you making such a statement?