everyone where I’m from in the midwest would have said “should of gone”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

NP. Of course they do. They live in a world where they will be judged more harshly if they don’t use prescriptive grammar. But they probably code switch.

PP here. I knew someone would say what you've written, but I disagree. Just because they wanted their students to learn correct English and meet high standards academically doesn't mean they thinking about being judged more harshly. It's important for anyone who wants to be successful professionally.

NP. You, clearly, are white and someone whose base language is more standard English. What I can't understand is, seeing all the judgments thrown out on this thread, is how you cannot see why black educators would stress the importance of 'proper' English to their students. Midwestern white people like me who say 'should have went', 'acrosst', 'worsh', etc. and with noticeable accents don't don't face the same intensity of judgment/discrimination as black people.

I changed my accent and way of speaking when I went to college because it was clear that I was perceived as ignorant. I wasn't. I have degrees in the Classics and Philosophy as well as an MBA. I speak 5 languages and can read/write in 2 dead languages. When I go home, I speak in my vernacular - every language has vernaculars that are different than the written/official language). When I write, I do not.

I highly recommend people look at Sunn m'Cheaux's posting on Instagram/TikTok/Twitter. He's an expert in this area and I find it fascinating.
https://alp.fas.harvard.edu/people/sunn-mcheaux
https://www.sunnmcheaux.com/

I'm amazed that you think Black educators don't speak correct English for any reason other than pressure and being judged harshly. As a group, most Black educators grew up using correct English.

That's not what the PP said. I'm not surprised you just make sh!t up. There are many reasons people, not only black people, choose when and how to use the language that they do.

So exactly what do you think the PP said?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

NP. Of course they do. They live in a world where they will be judged more harshly if they don’t use prescriptive grammar. But they probably code switch.

PP here. I knew someone would say what you've written, but I disagree. Just because they wanted their students to learn correct English and meet high standards academically doesn't mean they thinking about being judged more harshly. It's important for anyone who wants to be successful professionally.

NP. You, clearly, are white and someone whose base language is more standard English. What I can't understand is, seeing all the judgments thrown out on this thread, is how you cannot see why black educators would stress the importance of 'proper' English to their students. Midwestern white people like me who say 'should have went', 'acrosst', 'worsh', etc. and with noticeable accents don't don't face the same intensity of judgment/discrimination as black people.

I changed my accent and way of speaking when I went to college because it was clear that I was perceived as ignorant. I wasn't. I have degrees in the Classics and Philosophy as well as an MBA. I speak 5 languages and can read/write in 2 dead languages. When I go home, I speak in my vernacular - every language has vernaculars that are different than the written/official language). When I write, I do not.

I highly recommend people look at Sunn m'Cheaux's posting on Instagram/TikTok/Twitter. He's an expert in this area and I find it fascinating.
https://alp.fas.harvard.edu/people/sunn-mcheaux
https://www.sunnmcheaux.com/

I'm amazed that you think Black educators don't speak correct English for any reason other than pressure and being judged harshly. As a group, most Black educators grew up using correct English.

He is a very charismatic speaker. Interesting that he uses the British pronunciation of “plaits” (rhymes with flats), instead of the American “plates.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

NP. Of course they do. They live in a world where they will be judged more harshly if they don’t use prescriptive grammar. But they probably code switch.

PP here. I knew someone would say what you've written, but I disagree. Just because they wanted their students to learn correct English and meet high standards academically doesn't mean they thinking about being judged more harshly. It's important for anyone who wants to be successful professionally.

NP. You, clearly, are white and someone whose base language is more standard English. What I can't understand is, seeing all the judgments thrown out on this thread, is how you cannot see why black educators would stress the importance of 'proper' English to their students. Midwestern white people like me who say 'should have went', 'acrosst', 'worsh', etc. and with noticeable accents don't don't face the same intensity of judgment/discrimination as black people.

I changed my accent and way of speaking when I went to college because it was clear that I was perceived as ignorant. I wasn't. I have degrees in the Classics and Philosophy as well as an MBA. I speak 5 languages and can read/write in 2 dead languages. When I go home, I speak in my vernacular - every language has vernaculars that are different than the written/official language). When I write, I do not.

I highly recommend people look at Sunn m'Cheaux's posting on Instagram/TikTok/Twitter. He's an expert in this area and I find it fascinating.
https://alp.fas.harvard.edu/people/sunn-mcheaux
https://www.sunnmcheaux.com/

I'm amazed that you think Black educators don't speak correct English for any reason other than pressure and being judged harshly. As a group, most Black educators grew up using correct English.

That's not what the PP said. I'm not surprised you just make sh!t up. There are many reasons people, not only black people, choose when and how to use the language that they do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

NP. Of course they do. They live in a world where they will be judged more harshly if they don’t use prescriptive grammar. But they probably code switch.

PP here. I knew someone would say what you've written, but I disagree. Just because they wanted their students to learn correct English and meet high standards academically doesn't mean they thinking about being judged more harshly. It's important for anyone who wants to be successful professionally.

NP. You, clearly, are white and someone whose base language is more standard English. What I can't understand is, seeing all the judgments thrown out on this thread, is how you cannot see why black educators would stress the importance of 'proper' English to their students. Midwestern white people like me who say 'should have went', 'acrosst', 'worsh', etc. and with noticeable accents don't don't face the same intensity of judgment/discrimination as black people.

I changed my accent and way of speaking when I went to college because it was clear that I was perceived as ignorant. I wasn't. I have degrees in the Classics and Philosophy as well as an MBA. I speak 5 languages and can read/write in 2 dead languages. When I go home, I speak in my vernacular - every language has vernaculars that are different than the written/official language). When I write, I do not.

I highly recommend people look at Sunn m'Cheaux's posting on Instagram/TikTok/Twitter. He's an expert in this area and I find it fascinating.
https://alp.fas.harvard.edu/people/sunn-mcheaux
https://www.sunnmcheaux.com/

I'm amazed that you think Black educators don't speak correct English for any reason other than pressure and being judged harshly. As a group, most Black educators grew up using correct English.

Anonymous wrote:I've always been confused why people say "it needs washed" instead of "it needs to be washed" or "it needs washing". It doesn't seem.to be a regional thing or perhaps I have not identified the region. I don't hear it often but each time it's a surprise.

Is English your first language?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

Yes, seriously.

I know it can be difficult to accept your innate white racism.

But it is high time you both accept it and confront it. Grammar is a place to begin.

You are exhausting. Those of us who spend years supporting all students and wanting to see them succeed in professions and jobs of their choice know that grammar is important. I think it's racist to want to see ANY student fall behind and get left out. I'll continue to teach without your input.

OMG.

You seriously believe it’s not possible for you to be a white racist, because of “years supporting?” Ever hear of white knighting??

Guess what . . .

By "WE," I'm referring to teachers of all races and backgrounds who are trying to help ALL KIDS. If you want to try to force an accusation of a "white racist," please feel free. You sound like you look for reasons to do so at any opportunity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

NP. Of course they do. They live in a world where they will be judged more harshly if they don’t use prescriptive grammar. But they probably code switch.

PP here. I knew someone would say what you've written, but I disagree. Just because they wanted their students to learn correct English and meet high standards academically doesn't mean they thinking about being judged more harshly. It's important for anyone who wants to be successful professionally.

NP. You, clearly, are white and someone whose base language is more standard English. What I can't understand is, seeing all the judgments thrown out on this thread, is how you cannot see why black educators would stress the importance of 'proper' English to their students. Midwestern white people like me who say 'should have went', 'acrosst', 'worsh', etc. and with noticeable accents don't don't face the same intensity of judgment/discrimination as black people.

I changed my accent and way of speaking when I went to college because it was clear that I was perceived as ignorant. I wasn't. I have degrees in the Classics and Philosophy as well as an MBA. I speak 5 languages and can read/write in 2 dead languages. When I go home, I speak in my vernacular - every language has vernaculars that are different than the written/official language). When I write, I do not.

I highly recommend people look at Sunn m'Cheaux's posting on Instagram/TikTok/Twitter. He's an expert in this area and I find it fascinating.
https://alp.fas.harvard.edu/people/sunn-mcheaux
https://www.sunnmcheaux.com/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assumed it was related to lack of education.

Your assumption is a racist one.

True.

Consider the fact most of America’s childhood grammar lessons were actually classes on white supremacy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/opinion-proper-english-grammar-racism_n_5ba91ec9e4b069d5f9d549cd

Seriously? I've worked with many Black educators all my life. They emphasized the importance of childhood grammar lessons and used correct grammar.

Yes, seriously.

I know it can be difficult to accept your innate white racism.

But it is high time you both accept it and confront it. Grammar is a place to begin.

You are exhausting. Those of us who spend years supporting all students and wanting to see them succeed in professions and jobs of their choice know that grammar is important. I think it's racist to want to see ANY student fall behind and get left out. I'll continue to teach without your input.

OMG.

You seriously believe it’s not possible for you to be a white racist, because of “years supporting?” Ever hear of white knighting??

Guess what . . .

Anonymous wrote:I've always been confused why people say "it needs washed" instead of "it needs to be washed" or "it needs washing". It doesn't seem.to be a regional thing or perhaps I have not identified the region. I don't hear it often but each time it's a surprise.

Dropping the "to be" is a Pittsburgh thing.

http://theglassblock.com/2016/07/07/pittsburghese-expertise-dropping-to-be/

I've always been confused why people say "it needs washed" instead of "it needs to be washed" or "it needs washing". It doesn't seem.to be a regional thing or perhaps I have not identified the region. I don't hear it often but each time it's a surprise.

Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.

Not weird if you were taught English grammar and, apparently, a lot of schools didn't bother to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regional, but also English grammar is weird.

How is it weird? You were either taught proper English, or not. This should have been taught starting in the 1st grade. Even if you hear it at home or "in the streets" what you're learning in school trumps all of that.

You don't think it's weird that the verb "to go" turns into "went" for past tense and then "gone" for past participle? How do you get "went" from "go"?

It is just an irregular verb, basically because it is a combination of two different words.

gān- Old English "to go, to leave" from which we get "go, gaed, gone". Past tense was gaed (sort of like "goed").

wenden - Old English turning, direction... became synonymous with "go" in some areas. Wenden, wended, wente.

In the North of England the past tense of go continued to be "gaed" but for some reason, "wente" started to be used as the past tense in Southern England, which was more high status and has become the "official" English.

We have otherwise mostly dropped the "wended" verb except to say "He wended his way..." occasionally.

Anonymous wrote:No one read anymore and reality tv which showcases poorly educated and poorly spoken people. Note also the prevalence of "Me and Larla are both dating the same guy".

Ironic that you’re lecturing on grammar.

Who cares? Language is not immutable. If 'should have went' is widely used, accepted, and understood then it is proper.