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Anonymous wrote:The South is not defined by bright lines—it’s a spectrum of cultural, geographic, and historical factors. I think of Virginia as a Southern state with strong northern influences—and the farther north you go in Virginia, the stronger those Northern influences are and the weaker the Southern influences are. (Conversely, I think of Maryland as a Northern state with strong Southern influences.). Northern Virginia feels much less “Southern” than places like Lynchburg, Danville, Emporia, and Richmond. But remember that, until just a few years ago, there was a Jeff Davis Highway and a Lee Highway in Arlington; there is still a Lee-Jackson Highway in Fairfax (though that is about to be changed); all of Virginia used to celebrate Lee-Jackson-King day; there is a neighborhood in the City of Fairfax where all the street names were Confederacy-related (though that is also about to change or has recently changed); there’s Sully Planation in Fairfax—I could go on. For someone coming from the North (as I did nearly 30 years ago), these Southern aspects of Northern Virginia stand out. And for someone coming from the Deep South, I’m sure that Northern Virginia’s more “Northern” influences make it feel less Southern than where they’re from—but the Southern roots are still there.

By the way, I don’t buy that just because a place is a college town (like Charlottesville) or is wealthy and diverse (like Northern Virginia) means that the place is not Southern. There are many progressive college towns scattered throughout the South, as well as large, diverse metro areas. Atlanta is the heart of the South, but much of suburban Atlanta looks and feels like Northern Virginia. Sure, it’s not connected to the Northeast Corridor like Northern Virginia, but demographically there are many similarities. Some would say that Atlanta is no longer “Southern” for that reason, but that’s relies on a small-and unfairly stereotypical view of the South.

This is a wonderfully written and thoughtful comment! I’m curious: Have you been to Western MD and the Eastern Shore? And if so, how did that influence your sense of Maryland as a “Northern state with strong Southern influences?” I’d like to get a better sense of some of the distinctions that you might be making. (History, accents, food, values, politics, identity…. )

Thanks! I have been to Western Maryland. The area around Hagerstown is part of the Great Valley and, not surprisingly, seems less Southern than places farther down I-81 (Harrisonburg, Stanton, Roanoke), but a bit more Southern than places farther north (Harrisburg). That makes sense, since there was a migration from Pennsylvania down into the Shenandoah Valley, which is why it’s culturally different in some respects from the Piedmont area of Virginia—the Blue Ridge Mountains acted as a barrier between these two areas.

Far Western Maryland (Cumberland) is basically wedged between Pennsylvania and West Virginia. That’s really more Appalachia than anything else. (BTW—West Virginia is a state that’s hard for me to categorize. Feels Southern yet it seceded from Virginia in the Civil War. Not really Northern or Mid-Atlantic because it’s so culturally different from much of what we think of as the Northeast/Mid Atlantic. And not really Midwestern, though it can feel that way along the Ohio River.)

The part of Maryland that feels most “Southern” to me is not the Eastern Shore but Southern Maryland. Economically that area is tied to Washington/Annapolis/Baltimore, but has an agricultural history and, if I recall correctly, a tobacco heritage. And I think the fact that Maryland is below the Pennsylvania-Maryland portion of the Mason-Dixon Line helps to give it some of its Southern influences, even if it is primarily a Northern state.

As for what makes something “Southern,” I think it’s a combination of things you identified—history, accents, food, etc. Those things tend align more in the core areas of the South and may become misaligned on the periphery. That’s why Northern Virginia may only check some of the boxes, and checks fewer boxes than other parts of Virginia. But it does check at least some boxes and, for better or worse (depending on your perspective), is part of a larger Commonwealth—which means that even if it feels fairly “Northern,” its politics and economics are tied to the overall politics of the state it’s in. And while Northern Virginia is largely responsible for Virginia’s Democratic tilt in the last 20 years, sometimes the rest of the state pulls NoVa back as happened in the 2021 statewide elections.

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Anonymous wrote:As a person from the actual south (Georgia)- not until Staunton/Roanoke/ south of Richmond. The people who say western Loudoun past Leesburg are wrong, that’s just rural. Charlottesville is a major college town. It isn’t southern, its identity is UVA. Nowhere within 50 miles of here for sure. Woodbridge isn’t “the south,” it’s just not suburban nova. And confederate flags aren’t the metric, those fly in every state because every state has racists.

Another southerner here. I’m from Mississippi. Nothing in Virginia feels southern to me until about Richmond. And even that’s a stretch.

You’re from the deep south. To us northerners this feels like the south.

That’s why those of us who ARE from the south are defining why most of VA isn’t really the south. Of course it “feels” south if you’re from New York but it’s actually not that southern in personality or character in much of the state and definitely not in any part that is near-ish to this metro area.

Virginia, yes all of Virginia even Arlington and Alexandria, WAS southern decades ago. In the 80s you would hear folks with southern accents all throughout Virginia, regardless of if you’re from Roanoke or Reston. That being said, as transplants and infrastructure change the overall landscape of an area, it begins to change. Like in Georgia, Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs feel nothing like the south. Charlotte NC, despite being at the border with SC, is unnoticeable from any Northern city.

Said no Northerner ever.

Charlottes a smaller market than Atlanta and DC. Atlanta and it’s subrubs feels nothing like the south, despite being in the Deep South.

It feels southern, just not rural Deep South.

I've lived in MoCo and FFX. I feel the difference every day. I have a preference. But that's not worth stating. At the end of the day, what matters most is the commute to work and how that affects your quality of life.

South of the James River.

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Anonymous wrote:I moved from atlanta to richmond and the latter feels more southern. But honestly nothing is uniformly anything--where we lived in atlanta was a combination of white liberals and black families (Dekalb county, heavily democratic); where we live in richmond is more white, wealthy and more republican. I hate it and want to move, but only into richmond proper.

Unrelated, but if you are from Richmond why are you on this forum? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, just surprised that people from as far as Richmond are active on a DC area forum!

NP. As far as Richmond? It’s not that far and full of former DC-area residents. I live a few hours further south and I spend a lot of time here.

+1 lots of people who work in the DMV live in Richmond. I’ve known people who commute that far even before the pandemic.

Please go to Culpeper or Spotsylvania and tell me it doesn’t feel Southern. Richmond is a developed city with many transplants, the land between DC and richmond is all rural and undeveloped southern land.

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Anonymous wrote:As a person from the actual south (Georgia)- not until Staunton/Roanoke/ south of Richmond. The people who say western Loudoun past Leesburg are wrong, that’s just rural. Charlottesville is a major college town. It isn’t southern, its identity is UVA. Nowhere within 50 miles of here for sure. Woodbridge isn’t “the south,” it’s just not suburban nova. And confederate flags aren’t the metric, those fly in every state because every state has racists.

Another southerner here. I’m from Mississippi. Nothing in Virginia feels southern to me until about Richmond. And even that’s a stretch.

You’re from the deep south. To us northerners this feels like the south.

That’s why those of us who ARE from the south are defining why most of VA isn’t really the south. Of course it “feels” south if you’re from New York but it’s actually not that southern in personality or character in much of the state and definitely not in any part that is near-ish to this metro area.

Virginia, yes all of Virginia even Arlington and Alexandria, WAS southern decades ago. In the 80s you would hear folks with southern accents all throughout Virginia, regardless of if you’re from Roanoke or Reston. That being said, as transplants and infrastructure change the overall landscape of an area, it begins to change. Like in Georgia, Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs feel nothing like the south. Charlotte NC, despite being at the border with SC, is unnoticeable from any Northern city.

Said no Northerner ever.

Charlottes a smaller market than Atlanta and DC. Atlanta and it’s subrubs feels nothing like the south, despite being in the Deep South.

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Anonymous wrote:As a person from the actual south (Georgia)- not until Staunton/Roanoke/ south of Richmond. The people who say western Loudoun past Leesburg are wrong, that’s just rural. Charlottesville is a major college town. It isn’t southern, its identity is UVA. Nowhere within 50 miles of here for sure. Woodbridge isn’t “the south,” it’s just not suburban nova. And confederate flags aren’t the metric, those fly in every state because every state has racists.

Another southerner here. I’m from Mississippi. Nothing in Virginia feels southern to me until about Richmond. And even that’s a stretch.

You’re from the deep south. To us northerners this feels like the south.

That’s why those of us who ARE from the south are defining why most of VA isn’t really the south. Of course it “feels” south if you’re from New York but it’s actually not that southern in personality or character in much of the state and definitely not in any part that is near-ish to this metro area.

Virginia, yes all of Virginia even Arlington and Alexandria, WAS southern decades ago. In the 80s you would hear folks with southern accents all throughout Virginia, regardless of if you’re from Roanoke or Reston. That being said, as transplants and infrastructure change the overall landscape of an area, it begins to change. Like in Georgia, Atlanta and the surrounding suburbs feel nothing like the south. Charlotte NC, despite being at the border with SC, is unnoticeable from any Northern city.

Said no Northerner ever.

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Anonymous wrote:I moved from atlanta to richmond and the latter feels more southern. But honestly nothing is uniformly anything--where we lived in atlanta was a combination of white liberals and black families (Dekalb county, heavily democratic); where we live in richmond is more white, wealthy and more republican. I hate it and want to move, but only into richmond proper.

Unrelated, but if you are from Richmond why are you on this forum? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, just surprised that people from as far as Richmond are active on a DC area forum!

NP. As far as Richmond? It’s not that far and full of former DC-area residents. I live a few hours further south and I spend a lot of time here.

+1 lots of people who work in the DMV live in Richmond. I’ve known people who commute that far even before the pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:Anything south of Alexandria. Fat people everywhere consuming vast quantities of fried food.

Obvious troll poster is obvious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved from atlanta to richmond and the latter feels more southern. But honestly nothing is uniformly anything--where we lived in atlanta was a combination of white liberals and black families (Dekalb county, heavily democratic); where we live in richmond is more white, wealthy and more republican. I hate it and want to move, but only into richmond proper.

Unrelated, but if you are from Richmond why are you on this forum? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, just surprised that people from as far as Richmond are active on a DC area forum!

NP. As far as Richmond? It’s not that far and full of former DC-area residents. I live a few hours further south and I spend a lot of time here.