Anonymous
12/23/2022 15:00
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.
+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.
No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.
It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).
I should add that I believe some Spanish-speaking parents would also opt for the English-only classrooms as they want full English immersion for their kids.
Some would, but most want their kids to learn and don’t care what language that’s in. And most want to be able to help their kids with school work and it’s easiest in a language you speak.
Spanish is a huge issue if you cannot help your kids. Some families are using the free tutoring.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 14:59
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What is sometimes not heard are the voices of the Spanish speaking families. Many of them do NOT want immersion classes. They want their kids learning English and learning to read and write well in English. I don’t know why there can’t be a program for heritage speakers in elementary school where they learn in English and then get extra clases for 30 minutes several times a week to learn in Spanish. During this time non English speaking students learn Spanish.
Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.
With the exception of OTES, I don't think the schools that currently host dual-immersion pull from many neighborhoods you'd consider "well off."
It depends on where the neighborhood. A good number of families are comfortable. Some just don’t prefer to sink all their money in housing, like us. You’d knever know what we have but we have far more than you think.
It does not work well for kids with challenges regardless and they should offer choice. Mcps offers it in middle school. I would have Ike’s a specials class but not immersion for my kids.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 14:13
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:What is sometimes not heard are the voices of the Spanish speaking families. Many of them do NOT want immersion classes. They want their kids learning English and learning to read and write well in English. I don’t know why there can’t be a program for heritage speakers in elementary school where they learn in English and then get extra clases for 30 minutes several times a week to learn in Spanish. During this time non English speaking students learn Spanish.
Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.
I agree - and previously pointed out - that not all Spanish speaking families will want Spanish immersion. But I also don’t think you’ve spent much time in Title I schools. This isn’t as much a matter of heritage speakers there. But I think we agree it’s complicated and requires diverse community input.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 14:08
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:What is sometimes not heard are the voices of the Spanish speaking families. Many of them do NOT want immersion classes. They want their kids learning English and learning to read and write well in English. I don’t know why there can’t be a program for heritage speakers in elementary school where they learn in English and then get extra clases for 30 minutes several times a week to learn in Spanish. During this time non English speaking students learn Spanish.
Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.
With the exception of OTES, I don't think the schools that currently host dual-immersion pull from many neighborhoods you'd consider "well off."
Anonymous
12/23/2022 13:08
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
What is sometimes not heard are the voices of the Spanish speaking families. Many of them do NOT want immersion classes. They want their kids learning English and learning to read and write well in English. I don’t know why there can’t be a program for heritage speakers in elementary school where they learn in English and then get extra clases for 30 minutes several times a week to learn in Spanish. During this time non English speaking students learn Spanish.
Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.
Many of these immersion programs exploit Spanish speakers. They aren’t developed to be in their best interest. It’s fir the interest of the well off English speaking kids.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 12:58
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.
+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.
No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.
It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).
I should add that I believe some Spanish-speaking parents would also opt for the English-only classrooms as they want full English immersion for their kids.
Some would, but most want their kids to learn and don’t care what language that’s in. And most want to be able to help their kids with school work and it’s easiest in a language you speak.
I agree many do. My point is I don’t think the English-only class would necessarily lack diversity, which I assume would be a concern. Many parents opt their kids out of ESL/ELD services. Parents have differing perspectives. While somewhat generational, in my own family, the grandparents definitely would have opted their kids out. Parents would not. Though I think the English-only class would ultimately become less desirable as the weaker non-ESOL students opt for it.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 12:09
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.
+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.
No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.
It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).
I should add that I believe some Spanish-speaking parents would also opt for the English-only classrooms as they want full English immersion for their kids.
Some would, but most want their kids to learn and don’t care what language that’s in. And most want to be able to help their kids with school work and it’s easiest in a language you speak.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 12:04
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Would you be as against it if the language was French?
Is there a large enough french speaking population at any school to justify it? I think the dual-immersion program makes perfect sense for Spanish as many schools have a large % of native-Spanish speakers and, after English, it's the most common language spoken in this country. Spanish is required for more and more jobs.
Less common languages like French and Chinese seem more appropriate as opt-in immersion programs rather than moving an entire school to a dual-immersion model. JMO.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 11:54
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
They don’t have enough teachers. That’s a problem. At the schools that have it, they have already had to hire teachers who spoke the language but had no certification. I’m concerned that they are expanding on a program without the resources needed to make it successful.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 11:24
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
That’s not really the point of these programs though- a big part of it is being inclusive for native-Spanish speakers. They get to learn in both Spanish and English. So a special a couple times a week wouldn’t really benefit them.
I get what you’re saying though- it’s very common in European countries for primary school kids to receive instruction in English and other languages several times per week. They pick it up so much faster at that age.
It's kind of a chicken-egg effect though. In general, language instruction in this country is not conducive to producing proficient bilingual speakers. Of those I know who are proficient in a second language, all either were born or lived in a foreign country or had a parent who spoke their native language at home. So there aren't enough kids choosing this path in college and becoming foreign language teachers. Where would MCPS find all the teachers to offer even limited instruction at all schools? Maybe more immersion opportunities will inspire more students to follow that path.
Not to mention, we need to spend more time on reading and math in this country than our European counterparts because Americans have fallen behind.
You understand that reading and math are both taught in the immersion language at an immersion school in MCPS?
Yes but they are only rolling this out a few schools at a time in part due to the unique staffing challenges of needing teachers trained to teach reading and mathematics in Spanish.
But anyway, I was responding to the PPs who wanted Spanish (or other languages) as specials in ES. That's still a lot of teachers you would need to find in a specialty that a minority of teaching students pursue.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 10:52
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
That’s not really the point of these programs though- a big part of it is being inclusive for native-Spanish speakers. They get to learn in both Spanish and English. So a special a couple times a week wouldn’t really benefit them.
I get what you’re saying though- it’s very common in European countries for primary school kids to receive instruction in English and other languages several times per week. They pick it up so much faster at that age.
It's kind of a chicken-egg effect though. In general, language instruction in this country is not conducive to producing proficient bilingual speakers. Of those I know who are proficient in a second language, all either were born or lived in a foreign country or had a parent who spoke their native language at home. So there aren't enough kids choosing this path in college and becoming foreign language teachers. Where would MCPS find all the teachers to offer even limited instruction at all schools? Maybe more immersion opportunities will inspire more students to follow that path.
Not to mention, we need to spend more time on reading and math in this country than our European counterparts because Americans have fallen behind.
You understand that reading and math are both taught in the immersion language at an immersion school in MCPS?
Anonymous
12/23/2022 10:49
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/2022/12/21/language-immersion-a-key-investment-in-newly-proposed-mcps-budget/
While this might be great news for kids that are Spanish speakers, what about the English speakers at the 3 schools McKnight decides on? Our ES can’t even teach well in ONE language and I fear for my child if they have to teach in 2 languages next year. Our school is high native Spanish speaker population and I’m really worried they will pick it to be one of these 3 schools. Will we be able to opt out? I don’t even see how this would work to just change a school like this. It’s different than building a new school specifically for this purpose and making it a “magnet” or lottery style.
This sounds amazing! So lucky to live in Moco!
+1000
Anonymous
12/23/2022 10:12
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.
+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.
No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.
It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).
I should add that I believe some Spanish-speaking parents would also opt for the English-only classrooms as they want full English immersion for their kids.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 10:09
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
That’s not really the point of these programs though- a big part of it is being inclusive for native-Spanish speakers. They get to learn in both Spanish and English. So a special a couple times a week wouldn’t really benefit them.
I get what you’re saying though- it’s very common in European countries for primary school kids to receive instruction in English and other languages several times per week. They pick it up so much faster at that age.
It's kind of a chicken-egg effect though. In general, language instruction in this country is not conducive to producing proficient bilingual speakers. Of those I know who are proficient in a second language, all either were born or lived in a foreign country or had a parent who spoke their native language at home. So there aren't enough kids choosing this path in college and becoming foreign language teachers. Where would MCPS find all the teachers to offer even limited instruction at all schools? Maybe more immersion opportunities will inspire more students to follow that path.
Not to mention, we need to spend more time on reading and math in this country than our European counterparts because Americans have fallen behind.
Anonymous
12/23/2022 09:52
Subject: 3 new language immersion schools next year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should just offer a language class a few days a week like they so specials but more often for all kids.
This. It would make more sense to do it this way. Friends in other states start a second language in 1st grade as a ‘special’ and it works well.
+1. It’s all or nothing in MCPS.
No, that would only benefit the English-speaking kids. One of the strengths of dual immersion is that native Spanish speakers get half of their day in their native language. So everyone gets to become strong both on their native language and a second language.
It’s really important for the Spanish-speaking kids with limited English to keep up in math and other subjects. It’s more accessible to them when taught in Spanish. This keeps them caught up on other subjects while their language skills catch up. For English speakers who are advanced students, it’s a good challenge to keep them engaged. I’m not sure where all those parents of advanced kids are on this thread. It’s like they disappeared with their 99% MAP scores. I do agree it can be less than ideal for English speakers who are struggling with literacy. I wonder if offering a couple mixed-grade English only classes at these schools would be an option (e.g., K-1, 2-3, and 4-5).
I think this is a good idea. It would also free up sone resources to expand the program to other schools. Because of the way MCPS selects schools for the program, schools with really high numbers of Spanish speakers are actually left out. They target schools with more of a mix. Which makes sense in a way but the neediest schools arent getting the benefits.