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Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Exactly. And not only that, but many of those who were rescued ended up dying later. Who knows if being helped better/sooner could have saved any of them.

Am I the only one who caught the fact the closest rescue by helicopter was an hour away? The private company was 20 minutes away. The closest boats were 60-90 minutes away. This was an act of god and most people were killed instantly or dead before even the closest rescue could have gotten to them. The kid who survived had no way of knowing his family was still alive when he was rescued.

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but the idea professional medical personnel left them to die is patently absurd.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Exactly. And not only that, but many of those who were rescued ended up dying later. Who knows if being helped better/sooner could have saved any of them.

Am I the only one who caught the fact the closest rescue by helicopter was an hour away? The private company was 20 minutes away. The closest boats were 60-90 minutes away. This was an act of god and most people were killed instantly or dead before even the closest rescue could have gotten to them. The kid who survived had no way of knowing his family was still alive when he was rescued.

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but the idea professional medical personnel left them to die is patently absurd.

The “professional medical personnel” didn’t even bother to show up.

The brave people who stepped in almost missed that kid. They were about to leave before they found him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those that have WaPo, I thought this editorial published in the wake of the eruption was interesting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-tourists-take-their-lives-into-their-own-hands/2019/12/22/668a30d8-2342-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html

The author, a professor at NYU, writes about how proximity to danger is marketed as attractive, but there is little discussion of the risk the tourists will be taking, just a blanket assumption of “everyone’s been fine before.” On a family trip, his 8 year old son Owen died while whitewater rafting.

(after reading this op-ed, I got the author’s book from the library. it’s an excellent account of the trip, including the dynamic of attractive-danger/hidden-risks, and his and his surviving family’s reaction to his son’s death. The book is called Disaster Falls, the name of the stretch of river where his son died. this is a free-to-access article from the author’s college alumni magazine covering some of the same ground: https://www.haverford.edu/college-communications/news/disaster-falls)

Thank you for posting this. I recently lost a child. It is very meaningful.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Exactly. And not only that, but many of those who were rescued ended up dying later. Who knows if being helped better/sooner could have saved any of them.

Am I the only one who caught the fact the closest rescue by helicopter was an hour away? The private company was 20 minutes away. The closest boats were 60-90 minutes away. This was an act of god and most people were killed instantly or dead before even the closest rescue could have gotten to them. The kid who survived had no way of knowing his family was still alive when he was rescued.

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but the idea professional medical personnel left them to die is patently absurd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Exactly. And not only that, but many of those who were rescued ended up dying later. Who knows if being helped better/sooner could have saved any of them.

Am I the only one who caught the fact the closest rescue by helicopter was an hour away? The private company was 20 minutes away. The closest boats were 60-90 minutes away. This was an act of god and most people were killed instantly or dead before even the closest rescue could have gotten to them. The kid who survived had no way of knowing his family was still alive when he was rescued.

It is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but the idea professional medical personnel left them to die is patently absurd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Exactly. And not only that, but many of those who were rescued ended up dying later. Who knows if being helped better/sooner could have saved any of them.

Anonymous wrote:For those who have watched, what age range would this be appropriate for? My DD is 12 and likes documentaries like this but I don't know if it will be scary. She really liked the thailand cave rescue one and was not scared by that fwiw.

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Anonymous wrote:I think they said the volcano was a level two but the guests didn't know what that meant. Apparently there are only 3 levels. so yeah, pretty serious but tourists probably thought it was out of 5 or 10 and again, assumed they wouldn't go there if it was really dangerous. I mean the guides didn't have any trepidation. That's an excursion I totally would have chosen.

It’s not hard to google what does level 2 mean. It goes 0,1,2,3 with 3 meaning currently erupting. So level 2 means eruption imminent. Yes the tourism should stop at level 2 but money talks. Anyone that visits a volcano should educate themselves on levels and unless they are a volcanologist or the volcano is labeled extinct or dormant they should stay far away.

They explained it as 1-2-3 on the documentary. Seems like they need to differentiate risk more for level 2. Something like 2A, 2B, 2C, etc.

+1. They said that 1 was dormant and 3 was erupting. So, a pretty useless system as is.

https://www.geonet.org.nz/about/volcano/val

it is a 0-5 scale. Not hard to google.

Pretty sure the documentary said it was a 1-3 scale. Are you citing 1-5 from the documentary or just googling?

In any case, just because something is easy to google, it doesn't mean that people will normally think to google it or that they should be expected to do so.l

Anonymous wrote:I preferred the 60 Minutes Australia segment about White Island. Why wasn’t Stephanie Browitt mentioned at all in this documentary? She was featured in the 60 minutes one.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they said the volcano was a level two but the guests didn't know what that meant. Apparently there are only 3 levels. so yeah, pretty serious but tourists probably thought it was out of 5 or 10 and again, assumed they wouldn't go there if it was really dangerous. I mean the guides didn't have any trepidation. That's an excursion I totally would have chosen.

It’s not hard to google what does level 2 mean. It goes 0,1,2,3 with 3 meaning currently erupting. So level 2 means eruption imminent. Yes the tourism should stop at level 2 but money talks. Anyone that visits a volcano should educate themselves on levels and unless they are a volcanologist or the volcano is labeled extinct or dormant they should stay far away.

They explained it as 1-2-3 on the documentary. Seems like they need to differentiate risk more for level 2. Something like 2A, 2B, 2C, etc.

+1. They said that 1 was dormant and 3 was erupting. So, a pretty useless system as is.

https://www.geonet.org.nz/about/volcano/val

it is a 0-5 scale. Not hard to google.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Huh? They were rescued, but not by the rescue agencies. Other people bravely stepped in to do their job.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Don't you think those visitors signed up for it knowing it was an active volcano?

This is a really sad story but also a cautionary tale to heed warnings. Thrw agency in New Zealand had an increased risk warning for tourists as did the tour company. I am sorry for the people who lost their lives but it’s kind of like when people go to North Korea for a tour.

Agreed. Some of the tourists in the documentary talked about how much they loved doing 'adventurous' things. But adventure, especially in nature, comes with a risk. Perhaps the tour company could have made the risk clearer (along with the fact that the volcano had been at a higher alert level for several weeks, to the point where government scientists were not allowed to go to it for fieldwork), but I wonder if even then some tourists would have still chosen to go 'for the adventure'.

This is not true. Government scientists were allowed to go. They just happened to not have any trips scheduled in the week or so right before the eruption, but they had been going before that. There was never a time when the scientists determined it was too dangerous for them to go. They knew the volcano was at increased risk of erupting but had no idea an eruption was imminent. You can Google for lots of articles about how and why scientists didn’t predict the eruption.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122190537/gns-banned-scientists-from-going-near-vents-a-week-before-white-island-eruption-claimed-21-lives

Did you read the article? The govt scientists were not banned from going to the island until Dec 10.

Really why post if you haven't even read it beyond the title?!?

The article says (and you confirm) that scientists were banned from going a week before the eruption, but tourists were still being allowed to go and get close to the crater. Not sure what you think I'm missing here - I did read the article entirely and I think my point stands.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't make myself watch. The rescue agencies just left those people there to die.

That’s not exactly true. The doc explains this.

I just watched it and it seems like that’s exactly what happened.

Disagree, every living person was rescued.

I was so impressed with that young man who lost the rest of his family! Talk about PTSD.

Anonymous wrote:For those who have watched, what age range would this be appropriate for? My DD is 12 and likes documentaries like this but I don't know if it will be scary. She really liked the thailand cave rescue one and was not scared by that fwiw.