Anonymous
12/13/2022 16:04
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.
Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?
Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.
If a student wants to compare merit aid with other schools they really are not committed to one school and should not apply ED.
The issue isn't comparing merit aid offers; the issue is getting an acceptance from an ED school with NO merit aid. Families who need merit aid, need merit aid. They cannot commit blindly in the ED context for that reason.
We get that. So it's a choice they make to not ED. the school is not affordable without aid, so ED is not the right choice for them. However, they could ED to a school that's affordable if their search included affordability as criteria.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 16:03
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.
Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?
Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.
If a student wants to compare merit aid with other schools they really are not committed to one school and should not apply ED.
The issue isn't comparing merit aid offers; the issue is getting an acceptance from an ED school with NO merit aid. Families who need merit aid, need merit aid. They cannot commit blindly in the ED context for that reason.
I'm finding that what we can afford and what we want to spend are just different. We were lucky enough to save $100k for college, so $25k per year. My husband and I make $260k so I guess we could afford to pitch in $50k more per year but that means we would have to cut back on retirement and that's just stupid.
I might be able to afford a Lexus but I'm only willing to spend the cost of a Honda.
That's entirely reasonable and many financial planners would enthusiastically urge you to do so.
If that is going to be the case, then let your kid know as early as you can, ideally by middle school. And help your DC with examples of schools that would meet the criteria starting around that time. Too many parents who want to buy Hondas don't let their kids with Lexus in their eyes know that until junior or even start of senior year and it can get ugly. And their teens, so of course they may have Lexus in their eyes - the parents just need to make sure they are well aware of the other cars on the lot.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:54
Subject: Re:“ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The thing you cannot do is compare FA offers.
But yes, you are right that it is not true the ED does not allow you to apply for FA and that admission should come with a guarantee of coverage for need.
This, and for kids who in particular want to compare merit offers, it is a non starter.
And kids who need merit aid and receive none with an ED acceptance are locked into a school they can't pay for, for which reason they cannot apply ED.
Nope.
You NEED financial needed-based aid. There is a calculation for that. You may not like the answer.
You WANT merit aid because you'd prefer to go to a school that is more expensive than you want to pay and think other donors and full-pay families should cover you, but this is choice.
To be clear, not a need.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:53
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.
+1
Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.
Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.
Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.
We're a donut hole family (about 200k hhi) and saved about 150 per kid until HHI jumped when the kids were in late ES/MS and we upped it to 1,000 per month per kid. That will fund less than 1 year of a SLAC and about 2 years of an instate school depending on the school. Unless we get merit, the kids will take out stafford loans because there is no way we can pay the difference in ECF and savings during the years when they are both in school
Since you did not save enough, then your kid/you will need loans and/or to find a school that offers more merit. However we were a family only making $150K when our first was born and living in SF (expensive!!!), and we managed to start saving ~$1000/month immediately. Any raises we got went at least 50% into the 529. We made sacrifices at that point to save as much as we could. If we hadn't we would be chasing the merit at this point.
Also, your kid can work part=time while in school and over summer and all breaks. They can bring in $7-8K each year. Yes, you might have some loans, but if you search for schools with merit you might not need much.
What wage are you estimating for the $7-8K/year and what kind of jobs?
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:22
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.
Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?
Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.
If a student wants to compare merit aid with other schools they really are not committed to one school and should not apply ED.
The issue isn't comparing merit aid offers; the issue is getting an acceptance from an ED school with NO merit aid. Families who need merit aid, need merit aid. They cannot commit blindly in the ED context for that reason.
I'm finding that what we can afford and what we want to spend are just different. We were lucky enough to save $100k for college, so $25k per year. My husband and I make $260k so I guess we could afford to pitch in $50k more per year but that means we would have to cut back on retirement and that's just stupid.
I might be able to afford a Lexus but I'm only willing to spend the cost of a Honda.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:19
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.
+1
Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.
Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.
Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.
We're a donut hole family (about 200k hhi) and saved about 150 per kid until HHI jumped when the kids were in late ES/MS and we upped it to 1,000 per month per kid. That will fund less than 1 year of a SLAC and about 2 years of an instate school depending on the school. Unless we get merit, the kids will take out stafford loans because there is no way we can pay the difference in ECF and savings during the years when they are both in school
Since you did not save enough, then your kid/you will need loans and/or to find a school that offers more merit. However we were a family only making $150K when our first was born and living in SF (expensive!!!), and we managed to start saving ~$1000/month immediately. Any raises we got went at least 50% into the 529. We made sacrifices at that point to save as much as we could. If we hadn't we would be chasing the merit at this point.
Also, your kid can work part=time while in school and over summer and all breaks. They can bring in $7-8K each year. Yes, you might have some loans, but if you search for schools with merit you might not need much.
You must be a much better person than people whose kids need merit money. I bow before you.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:17
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.
+1
Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.
Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.
Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.
Leaving aside the necessity of beating the crap out of this horse, the question in this thread isn't whether you know everything about other people's economic circumstances; it's whether ED confers an advantage on those who - with the exception of need-blind schools - are comfortably full-pay and don't need merit aid or financial aid. The answer is yes.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 15:11
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.
Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?
Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.
If a student wants to compare merit aid with other schools they really are not committed to one school and should not apply ED.
The issue isn't comparing merit aid offers; the issue is getting an acceptance from an ED school with NO merit aid. Families who need merit aid, need merit aid. They cannot commit blindly in the ED context for that reason.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 14:56
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Applying to a school ED is a choice the student makes. Just like you chose where to live based in what you could afford, or the car you drive. Lots of options out there.
Just like you decide how much debt college is worth to you. Plenty take out $100K+ in loans. Others (I call them the smart ones--because no college is worth that much for undergrad) choose to go somewhere more affordable and graduate with minimal to no debt.
Much like some parents choose to prioritize saving for college while others prioritized spending on other things. Life is all about choices and the beauty is you get to live with the consequences of your choices.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 14:54
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.
+1
Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.
Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.
Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.
We're a donut hole family (about 200k hhi) and saved about 150 per kid until HHI jumped when the kids were in late ES/MS and we upped it to 1,000 per month per kid. That will fund less than 1 year of a SLAC and about 2 years of an instate school depending on the school. Unless we get merit, the kids will take out stafford loans because there is no way we can pay the difference in ECF and savings during the years when they are both in school
Since you did not save enough, then your kid/you will need loans and/or to find a school that offers more merit. However we were a family only making $150K when our first was born and living in SF (expensive!!!), and we managed to start saving ~$1000/month immediately. Any raises we got went at least 50% into the 529. We made sacrifices at that point to save as much as we could. If we hadn't we would be chasing the merit at this point.
Also, your kid can work part=time while in school and over summer and all breaks. They can bring in $7-8K each year. Yes, you might have some loans, but if you search for schools with merit you might not need much.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 14:34
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Applying to a school ED is a choice the student makes. Just like you chose where to live based in what you could afford, or the car you drive. Lots of options out there.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 14:02
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.
+1
Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.
Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.
Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.
We're a donut hole family (about 200k hhi) and saved about 150 per kid until HHI jumped when the kids were in late ES/MS and we upped it to 1,000 per month per kid. That will fund less than 1 year of a SLAC and about 2 years of an instate school depending on the school. Unless we get merit, the kids will take out stafford loans because there is no way we can pay the difference in ECF and savings during the years when they are both in school
Anonymous
12/13/2022 13:31
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.
Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?
Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.
If a student wants to compare merit aid with other schools they really are not committed to one school and should not apply ED.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 13:14
Subject: Re:“ED is to locked down full payers”
For all the reasons stated, applying ED is an option for families with need, no reason to sit it out. However, ED is also the time for full pay students to make that known, and use it to their advantage. Most schools are not need blind. And you better believe the ones that are need blind, get many more applications for that reason alone.
Anonymous
12/13/2022 12:59
Subject: “ED is to locked down full payers”
Anonymous wrote:Both can be true.
You don't have to be full pay to apply ED and get in.
ED is to lock down full-pay students. It makes business sense.
I think ED is really to lock down enrollment numbers, which also makes business sense. I also think that it locks down mostly pay vs full pay students.