As someone who has recruited 100+ people from both SLACs and Research Universities, I would say it's a different answer than it was 10 years ago. Circa 2010, I'd take SLAC grads over a place like VT, Cal, or Michigan e.g., because they were generally better critical thinkers and writers. The emphasis on core curriculum, writing, logic, etc. made better entry level employees in consulting. That has changed, imho. SLAC grads are weaker than they were (not judging on why, but can guess). It's not that the big school grads are better at critical thinking and writing, but they haven't gotten worse, and they tend to be more motivated and have useful hard skills. This is just one recruiter's observation.

Anonymous wrote:I’m another anti-SLAC poster, but not because I think they’re overrated or you can’t get a job coming out of them etc. I think they’re fine schools generally, but only if they’re top 14-20, and below that (CTCL level) they’re just not worth the extra money and attract too many underachieving students with well to do parents who somehow have convinced themselves that simply by virtue of smaller size and larger price they are better than the other option available to their kids - second tier state schools - when in fact the truly important metrics (quality of entering study body, graduation rates, and employment statistics) are equal.

This shows a real lack of understanding of LAC pricing outside the top tier. I have a kid who has the profile where her options are 2nd tier VA state schools or LACs in the 50-100 range. She's a senior and has applied to both. Has acceptances from both categories. There is NO price difference. She likes small, rural and the small size/focus on teaching-mentoring is a plus for the research opportunities that are important to her. Yes, there are absolutely compromises. She would have a broader range of EC options at a bigger school but she, rightly, is focused on where she thinks she will do best academically. And prioritizing the availability of one EC that is particularly important to her.

Would the research, EC, student body, etc. all be great at a top ranked national U or top ranked SLAC, absolutely. But that's not the school she is going to get into or, a bit lower down the rankings not the schools we can pay for. Life is about choices and making the best of the options that are workable for you.

My senior's mid-range LAC is going to cost just a bit more than my older kid's education at Virginia Tech. Maybe #2 will end up there for grad school but right now she wants a small, close knit community. I think mostly as a reaction against a huge, overcrowded high school. I'm glad our education system has a range of options for all kinds of students. Railing against LACs seems as logical as someone who loves a city-based college railing against the "college town" type schools. Different strokes.

Different schools work for different kids. My SLAC had an excellent pipeline to wall street for those who were interested and good job placement through a tight alumni network. Class size depended on major - some majors like history or government had large classes others didn't - but it was easy to get into the classes you needed for your major and it was unheard of to have to delay graduation to get into the required classes like seems to be common at bigger schools. The upper level SLAC classes are able to be more writing intensive, speaking intensive and more feedback from professors due to the size. I had no multiple choice tests in 4 years. For some kids the size would be stifling for others it presents the opportunity to meet people you ordinarily wouldn't gravitate towards since in a small place you eventually get to know everyone

Anonymous wrote:The "preppier" LACs like Williams, Amherst, Colgate, Colby, etc. tend to have good career outcomes right out of undergrad.

The "crunchier" ones like Grinnell, Carleton, Pomona, Oberlin, etc. have very little on-campus recruiting -- the vast majority of students go to grad school (often a PhD, which have questionable ROI).

My kid is a Grinnell grad married to a Grinnell grad. They both have excellent jobs and landed them right off the bat, and all of their friends from college are doing equally well or better. Some went on to grad school, some didn’t. One got a PhD. All did fine.

I don’t think I know anyone from any college who got their job through on campus recruiting, honestly. I’m sure it happens, but I would never advise a kid to pick a school based on who recruits on campus. Most graduates get their jobs by casting wide nets.

Also, on the PhD front, while it’s certainly true that graduates of SLACs tend to get PhDs in disproportionately large numbers, it’s still the case that the overwhelming majority of SLAC grads don’t go on to get a PhD.

My kid graduated from a SLAC 2 years ago. Got to be a star in his sport where he would have been lost or had to play at the club level if he went to a big university. Classmate / teammate connections got him a very good IB job at graduation. Overall, it was a very positive experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are the obsessed anti/SLAC posters so obsessed? It’s really sad. If you think they are inferior, why are you threatened by them? And why not be happy that those students aren’t taking up spots in the schools you covet?

Why do the handful of obsessed SLAC posters write inaccurate descriptions of National Universities and often resort to insults and name-calling rather than discussing the realities ?

If LACs were so great, there would be more of them and fewer of the existing LACs would be in such dire financial situations.

I am not that PP and I went to state schools and HYS so no personal experience with SLACs. I started reading this forum about a year ago. As a FYI, my kids aren’t at SLACS, except that now that I’ve been reading your obsessed posts on DCUM for awhile, I’m going to encourage my youngest to look at SLACs. Your posts are distinctive — you post ALL the time on any post even slightly related to SLACS — and over the past year or so have made me look a lot more deeply at SLACs because you sound so bizarrely jealous and unhinged. I figure there must be something really good for someone to be so bitter about not getting into one and to blanket the College forum so incessantly. Then I learned about the spectacular educational possibilities. So thanks for that education! I think my youngest will benefit!

Unigo is a good place to get direct feedback from students.

LAC obsessed people seem a bit over the top and unwilling to deal with the realities of small, rural, isolated schools.

Again if LACs were so great, there would be more of them and fewer would be suffering from inadequate funding.

Agree with another poster who notes that the top LACs are interesting--especially the Claremont schools and Barnard & top 10. Larger schools offer more diversity and more options in every aspect of student life.

Look, I’m just telling you that as someone newish to this board and who wasn’t really looking at SLACs, your bizarrely over-the-top rants about SLACs have pushed me in the exact opposite direction as you intended, so maybe cool down the crazy-sounding posts a bit if you truly want people to not go to SLACs?

As an example, the bolded is absurdly over-the-top. For some students looking for certain experiences, it’s simply not going to be true. God knows HYS isn’t the paradise you seem to think it is for all students all the time, as an alumni.

Just stop being so weird and nutty if you want people to really not consider SLACs. You really aren’t doing your argument any favors. You come across as obsessed, bitter, and jealous, and anytime someone is that negatively entranced with something, to somebody who is coming to this as a neutral person, it makes the SLACs look better, not worse.

Anonymous wrote:My kid (who just graduated from an SLAC) had many more leadership and research opportunities then she would have at a large public. The community is so small that no one goes unnoticed (in a good way). She really emerged and shone.

Plus, because there are only undergrads to staff the labs, she had her choice of research opportunities and parlayed that into 3 or 4 peer reviewed publications as an undergrad. I doubt that would have happened at a large RO1 university.

Although I see more advantages in attending private National Universities and large public honors colleges than small, rural, isolated LACs, I do think that the above post presents a reasonable position. The post indicates that there is less competition at his or her kid's SLAC which has some advantages and benefits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid (who just graduated from an SLAC) had many more leadership and research opportunities then she would have at a large public. The community is so small that no one goes unnoticed (in a good way). She really emerged and shone.

Plus, because there are only undergrads to staff the labs, she had her choice of research opportunities and parlayed that into 3 or 4 peer reviewed publications as an undergrad. I doubt that would have happened at a large RO1 university.

Except you don’t know this. You’re just assuming.

NP: I think those are fair and accurate assumptions.

Oh, ok, so you “think” they are accurate “assumptions” then. I guess that makes them true and reliable. Thanks for clearing that up lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid (who just graduated from an SLAC) had many more leadership and research opportunities then she would have at a large public. The community is so small that no one goes unnoticed (in a good way). She really emerged and shone.

Plus, because there are only undergrads to staff the labs, she had her choice of research opportunities and parlayed that into 3 or 4 peer reviewed publications as an undergrad. I doubt that would have happened at a large RO1 university.

Except you don’t know this. You’re just assuming.

NP: I think those are fair and accurate assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:My kid (who just graduated from an SLAC) had many more leadership and research opportunities then she would have at a large public. The community is so small that no one goes unnoticed (in a good way). She really emerged and shone.

Plus, because there are only undergrads to staff the labs, she had her choice of research opportunities and parlayed that into 3 or 4 peer reviewed publications as an undergrad. I doubt that would have happened at a large RO1 university.

Except you don’t know this. You’re just assuming.

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone with a kid in the UC system knows the claim of 1:18 is flat out false.

I also went to HYS and I don’t believe those numbers. I’m sorry, but they are fake.

The number that would be useful is the faculty teaching FTE to undergraduate student ratio. A professor can can spend their time teaching/supervising graduate students, doing research or other activities like writing, or teaching undergraduates. The percentage of time spent teaching undergraduates has been going down over time.

My kid (who just graduated from an SLAC) had many more leadership and research opportunities then she would have at a large public. The community is so small that no one goes unnoticed (in a good way). She really emerged and shone.

Plus, because there are only undergrads to staff the labs, she had her choice of research opportunities and parlayed that into 3 or 4 peer reviewed publications as an undergrad. I doubt that would have happened at a large RO1 university.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are the obsessed anti/SLAC posters so obsessed? It’s really sad. If you think they are inferior, why are you threatened by them? And why not be happy that those students aren’t taking up spots in the schools you covet?

Why do the handful of obsessed SLAC posters write inaccurate descriptions of National Universities and often resort to insults and name-calling rather than discussing the realities ?

If LACs were so great, there would be more of them and fewer of the existing LACs would be in such dire financial situations.

There are way more liberal arts colleges than there are universities. Most are not in dire financial circumstances.

Actually this isn’t true. There are more universities than liberal arts colleges. Look it up.

Yea just look at US News, which follows the Carnegie classification system for colleges and universities and doesn’t just make it all up. There are more than twice as many national universities as national liberal arts colleges and a lot more regional universities than regional colleges.

You are just plain wrong.

Here's an interesting ranking that includes SLACs and national universities together. The SLACs do very well. It's worth reading the essay that comes before the ranking, which is on page 6.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are the obsessed anti/SLAC posters so obsessed? It’s really sad. If you think they are inferior, why are you threatened by them? And why not be happy that those students aren’t taking up spots in the schools you covet?

Why do the handful of obsessed SLAC posters write inaccurate descriptions of National Universities and often resort to insults and name-calling rather than discussing the realities ?

If LACs were so great, there would be more of them and fewer of the existing LACs would be in such dire financial situations.

I am not that PP and I went to state schools and HYS so no personal experience with SLACs. I started reading this forum about a year ago. As a FYI, my kids aren’t at SLACS, except that now that I’ve been reading your obsessed posts on DCUM for awhile, I’m going to encourage my youngest to look at SLACs. Your posts are distinctive — you post ALL the time on any post even slightly related to SLACS — and over the past year or so have made me look a lot more deeply at SLACs because you sound so bizarrely jealous and unhinged. I figure there must be something really good for someone to be so bitter about not getting into one and to blanket the College forum so incessantly. Then I learned about the spectacular educational possibilities. So thanks for that education! I think my youngest will benefit!

Unigo is a good place to get direct feedback from students.

LAC obsessed people seem a bit over the top and unwilling to deal with the realities of small, rural, isolated schools.

Again if LACs were so great, there would be more of them and fewer would be suffering from inadequate funding.

Agree with another poster who notes that the top LACs are interesting--especially the Claremont schools and Barnard & top 10. Larger schools offer more diversity and more options in every aspect of student life.