Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised Williamsburg is so low. I know it draws from a very wealthy area, but 2.43% is so low - especially compared to Hamm and Swanson. Did Hamm take all the "poor" people from Williamsburg when it opened?

Also, my kids went to Glebe - they are in HS now. Their numbers are much lower than they used to be, too.

It's so low b/c it only pulls from these:

NOTTINGHAM 4.63%
JAMESTOWN 4.57%
DISCOVERY 2.88%
TUCKAHOE 2.68%

Hmm, does this potentially indicate that more people have their kids in private schools in elementary over the past few years than in middle? (Feeder elementaries ALL have higher rates than the WMS average). Or are the FARMS families on the "borders" and go to Swanson/Hamm?

Anonymous wrote:We really do need to abolish the choice schools, and make real ones about learning style if at all. Need applied learning? Add that to all schools. Need the double literacy that ATS offers, do that too. Need bilingual education, well, that one I don't have a good solution to; might need to keep them but NO Free Summer School for just them. WHat's HB's learning style? Make that a 70 person section in each school and we wouldn't need an HB and the urban center could have their own walk-to-it high school.

I generally agree with your direction. I believe all of our schools should be able to serve all of our populations, or from another perspective, a student should be able to transfer from any school to another and still have their needs met (such as a low-income ELL who moves from the Carlin Springs district to Cardinal, for example). I do think there is need for very specific programs such as MIPA or hard of hearing, etc. that are better served as a program in specific location(s) mainly because of #s and the specific resources needed. The HB program is not one that would easily, or effectively, be duplicated in little sub-groups within a school. That would just be creating a school within a school. If that program actually served the type of student learners it was intended to serve, it would be fine to retain it as a separate program in its own location.

I also agree that summer school shouldn't be free just on the basis of being an immersion student, theoretically. But the main purpose of making it free is to facilitate the low-income Spanish-speakers who would benefit from summer school. If that works, then keep encouraging them with free summer school. But it should be need-based. Families able to pay should pay for whatever summer school services they need/opt for.

I don’t understand all the HB hatred. It’s not better than the neighborhood high schools. I’ve had kids attend both. I also know parents who pulled their kids out of HB and sent them to the neighborhood schools because they decided those schools were better.

Anonymous wrote:It's also amazing to me how white people are SO scared of the high FRL schools.

When you live in South Arlington, you are not scared of them. And you know that your child can have a terrific experience anywhere. We have friends who choose to go to Drew this year (vice Abingdon) and are having an outstanding experience.

But of course, you should have to post your zip code when entering these discussions. It seems 22207 has a lot of opinions about what happens with 22204 and think their opinion should trump the opinion of those of us who actually live here.

OK, for the record, I'm 22204 and my kids went to Barcroft. Yes, they had a mostly solidly good experience with some outstanding teachers and a few lousy ones. Less great experiences as the administration changed. Nevertheless, I know for a fact that their experience was significantly different than that of their friends in low-FRL/low-ELL north Arlington schools where classes were faster-paced, there were more and more varied enrichment and field trip experiences and opportunities, and PTAs had more resources to enhance the whole experience. The fact that our south Arlington experience was still solid and good does not make it "right" or, imo, "OK" for such disparities within a system in a county so small and wealthy as Arlington. ALL students in Arlington should have the positive benefits of a diverse school environment because it's possible to provide that when we have such diversity. Very few schools actually offer a really diverse environment, as most are either very low FRL and ELL or very high FRL and ELL. Neither extreme is actually "diverse."

With regard to which schools get more resources, a few things to consider. The cost per student is on each page of the full budget (the 200 pg one). However, it's misleading. If a school has MIPA, that might skew the numbers. If they are high poverty, there might be federal dollars augmenting Arlington dollars. If they have a VPI, again, numbers skewed, that's state money.

We really do need to abolish the choice schools, and make real ones about learning style if at all. Need applied learning? Add that to all schools. Need the double literacy that ATS offers, do that too. Need bilingual education, well, that one I don't have a good solution to; might need to keep them but NO Free Summer School for just them. WHat's HB's learning style? Make that a 70 person section in each school and we wouldn't need an HB and the urban center could have their own walk-to-it high school.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Arlington parents have been whining about the public school system for decades. What’s that saying “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded?” That applies to all of you.

I doubt this is what people have been whining about.

I had kids in the system from the late 1980s through the entire first decade of the 2000s. Believe me, it was.

These statistics are not reflective of your kids’ experience in ES in the 80s and 90s. The whole point of this thread is how the disparity has increased rapidly in some schools post-pandemic.

Nope. Even then there was a huge disparity, which was a constant source of discussion. There’s really no material difference today. Look it up.

DP. I don't know the stats from the 80s and 90s; but I instinctively agree. Obviously, south Arlington has always been higher FRL and north arlington has been low FRL. That's evident in everyone's urgency to find a home in north arlington "for the schools." However, the specific point of this specific thread is also rightly noteworthy when looking at Drew and Barcroft in particular. Barcroft has been in the low 60% for several years and is now almost 75%!! It is also interesting that Carlin Springs dropped! It used to be over 80%.

I'm sure people's economic situations have shifted during COVID, which could account for an increase. But I'm curious what caused the drop at Carlin Springs. Have more low-income families there opted for Campbell ? or?

PP here to add that Randolph also was closer to 80% and has dropped. Campbell used to be in the 50%s and has dropped. But Barcroft has increased, though if I recall correctly, enrollment - at least at Barcroft - is also down. So maybe the part of the student body that has changed/moved is the non-FRL families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington parents have been whining about the public school system for decades. What’s that saying “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded?” That applies to all of you.

I doubt this is what people have been whining about.

I had kids in the system from the late 1980s through the entire first decade of the 2000s. Believe me, it was.

These statistics are not reflective of your kids’ experience in ES in the 80s and 90s. The whole point of this thread is how the disparity has increased rapidly in some schools post-pandemic.

Nope. Even then there was a huge disparity, which was a constant source of discussion. There’s really no material difference today. Look it up.

DP. I don't know the stats from the 80s and 90s; but I instinctively agree. Obviously, south Arlington has always been higher FRL and north arlington has been low FRL. That's evident in everyone's urgency to find a home in north arlington "for the schools." However, the specific point of this specific thread is also rightly noteworthy when looking at Drew and Barcroft in particular. Barcroft has been in the low 60% for several years and is now almost 75%!! It is also interesting that Carlin Springs dropped! It used to be over 80%.

I'm sure people's economic situations have shifted during COVID, which could account for an increase. But I'm curious what caused the drop at Carlin Springs. Have more low-income families there opted for Campbell ? or?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most embarrassing is HB Woodlawn at 12%. There’s no reason for that to be lower than the county average.

Yeah that seems like the easiest thing to fix. They could easily allocate more HB seats to the high FARMS schools and earmark those seats for FARMS kids

No, they couldn’t. It’s likely illegal. The system was sued in the past for trying to weigh the lottery.

There’s another way: outreach, outreach, outreach.

That was by using race. Economic status is the alternative means of trying to address diversity. There is nothing illegal about using socioeconomic status - YET..

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Anonymous wrote:The most embarrassing is HB Woodlawn at 12%. There’s no reason for that to be lower than the county average.

Here we go again with the HB bashing. We get it. Your kid didn’t get in and you’re jealous. I’ll bet your kid doesn’t qualify for reduced price meals either.

DP. I agree with the PPP. Option programs should be balanced. They can be controlled with admissions policies requiring it. But they won't do it.

HB’s program was not designed to serve an economically diverse population per se. Its program is designed for students with a certain learning style, and it’s self selecting. The selection process already attempts to arrive at socioeconomic diversity by allocating slots among the various elementary schools fairly and equitably, but it can’t force poor kids to apply.

I don't know how you can look at this application data and say people are self-selecting for learning style: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/secondary-options-transfers-application-data-school-year-2022-23/

There are 443 applicants for 73 offered seats in the 6th grade entry year. If it was about learning style we would be more concerned that 83% of the people who think they need that environment can't get it. We would have a process where there is some kind of recommendation and application materials showing suitability. Everyone know that HB Woodlawn is no longer about self selecting for leaning style.

Who said anything about “needing” HB’s learning style? There’s a difference between need and want.

There are plenty of students who decided against HB because they want certain sports or electives. Arlington needs more, not fewer, high school seats. HB needs to stay an option high school. If anything, it should drop middle school students and open up more high school seats.

I'd support that. But the middle school students still have to go somewhere and we have over-crowded middle schools. APS needs to do better with MS boundaries.

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Anonymous wrote:You’ll find the same disparity in every one of the larger public school systems in the DMV, including DC itself. It’s because schools are largely neighborhood based. Nothing unique about Arlington.

The elementary schools are neighborhood based. They need to do away with the option schools and figure out a better way to do the middle and high school boundaries.

What do option schools have to do with middle and high school boundaries? I'm only aware of them being relevant to Spanish immersion, where N. Arlington kids from Escuela Key can stay in immersion at Gunston and Wakefield. If anything that would help improve the balance.

There are elementary option schools. There shouldn’t be option schools in a public school system. The resources should be used to make sure the neighborhood schools offer a more equal experience.

Just my opinion.

Do Key or Claremont get more resources per student than other schools? I don't think so. Option schools just reflect that not all students need exactly the same thing. I have one kid in immersion and another at the neighborhood school because immersion wouldn't have been a good fit for them.

Montessori does with its instructional-philosophy required assistants in every room. Immersion not so technically as you are suggesting; but it takes more financial resources to provide transportation from across the county and requires qualified bilingual teachers. I assume it also requires acquiring educational materials in both languages, which other schools don't require.

I really appreciate your parenting each of your children according to their needs rather than claiming seats for children for whom the program is ill-suited. I wish more parents would do that. However, that seems to be more common regarding immersion because the academic impacts are more obvious. HBW, on the other hand, doesn't have the same negative academic impacts and is more about environment; and many are willing and able to keep with the environment even if they would be equally served and successful academically at their neighborhood school.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most embarrassing is HB Woodlawn at 12%. There’s no reason for that to be lower than the county average.

Here we go again with the HB bashing. We get it. Your kid didn’t get in and you’re jealous. I’ll bet your kid doesn’t qualify for reduced price meals either.

DP. I agree with the PPP. Option programs should be balanced. They can be controlled with admissions policies requiring it. But they won't do it.

HB’s program was not designed to serve an economically diverse population per se. Its program is designed for students with a certain learning style, and it’s self selecting. The selection process already attempts to arrive at socioeconomic diversity by allocating slots among the various elementary schools fairly and equitably, but it can’t force poor kids to apply.

I don't know how you can look at this application data and say people are self-selecting for learning style: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/secondary-options-transfers-application-data-school-year-2022-23/

There are 443 applicants for 73 offered seats in the 6th grade entry year. If it was about learning style we would be more concerned that 83% of the people who think they need that environment can't get it. We would have a process where there is some kind of recommendation and application materials showing suitability. Everyone know that HB Woodlawn is no longer about self selecting for leaning style.

Who said anything about “needing” HB’s learning style? There’s a difference between need and want.

A PP upthread was saying HB can’t match the county average FARMs rate because it’s self selecting for learning style.

Previous comment from above: "Its program is designed for students with a certain learning style..."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most embarrassing is HB Woodlawn at 12%. There’s no reason for that to be lower than the county average.

Here we go again with the HB bashing. We get it. Your kid didn’t get in and you’re jealous. I’ll bet your kid doesn’t qualify for reduced price meals either.

DP. I agree with the PPP. Option programs should be balanced. They can be controlled with admissions policies requiring it. But they won't do it.

HB’s program was not designed to serve an economically diverse population per se. Its program is designed for students with a certain learning style, and it’s self selecting. The selection process already attempts to arrive at socioeconomic diversity by allocating slots among the various elementary schools fairly and equitably, but it can’t force poor kids to apply.

I don't know how you can look at this application data and say people are self-selecting for learning style: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/secondary-options-transfers-application-data-school-year-2022-23/

There are 443 applicants for 73 offered seats in the 6th grade entry year. If it was about learning style we would be more concerned that 83% of the people who think they need that environment can't get it. We would have a process where there is some kind of recommendation and application materials showing suitability. Everyone know that HB Woodlawn is no longer about self selecting for leaning style.

+1 Yep!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most embarrassing is HB Woodlawn at 12%. There’s no reason for that to be lower than the county average.

Here we go again with the HB bashing. We get it. Your kid didn’t get in and you’re jealous. I’ll bet your kid doesn’t qualify for reduced price meals either.

DP. I agree with the PPP. Option programs should be balanced. They can be controlled with admissions policies requiring it. But they won't do it.

HB’s program was not designed to serve an economically diverse population per se. Its program is designed for students with a certain learning style, and it’s self selecting. The selection process already attempts to arrive at socioeconomic diversity by allocating slots among the various elementary schools fairly and equitably, but it can’t force poor kids to apply.

The admissions policy doesn't actually do anything to ensure students of that "certain learning style" - whatever that is - are actually accepted and enrolled. So if it doesn't even strive to serve the students it was designed for, there's no reason it can't do more to enroll more socioeconomically diverse students.

Yes, the policy does attempt to spread out enrollment across the system by allotting certain # of seats from each elementary school. But there isn't any element of the system for directing students who would most benefit academically from the program and, as you say, it's self-selection into the lottery. Lower income students from certain parts of the county are unlikely to accept a seat even if selected. Look at Carlin Springs -- they typically have sent zero students.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS has posted this year's free and reduced meals report: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/FREE-REDUCED-OCTOBER-31-2022.pdf

This is the first time these numbers have been reported since 2019, so we are seeing the impact of the school moves, pandemic changes, etc. Barrett, Barcroft, and Drew are all significantly higher.

BARRETT 74.91%
RANDOLPH 74.88%
BARCROFT 74.84%
CARLIN SPRINGS 74.82%
DREW 74.78%
KENMORE 51.34%
HOFFMAN BOSTON 46.38%
CAMPBELL 45.65%
JEFFERSON 42.05%
ABINGDON 40.69%
WAKEFIELD 39.59%
GUNSTON 36.81%
INNOVATION 35.98%
ARL. TRADITIONAL 34.78%
ARLINGTON COMM 34.61%
ESCUELA KEY 32.63%
ALICE WEST FLEET 32.11%
LONG BRANCH 31.68%
OAKRIDGE 31.62%
CLAREMONT 27.64%
MONTESSORI 27.60%
WASHINGTON LIB 24.34%
DOROTHY HAMM 19.11%
SWANSON 17.56%
ASHLAWN 17.21%
SCIENCE FOCUS 14.78%
YORKTOWN 14.40%
GLEBE 13.04%
HB WOODLAWN 12.15%
TAYLOR 8.02%
CARDINAL 6.37%
NOTTINGHAM 4.63%
JAMESTOWN 4.57%
DISCOVERY 2.88%
TUCKAHOE 2.68%
WILLIAMSBURG 2.43%
TOTAL 30.13%

Glad HB is representative of the student population /s

The HB and Williamsburg statistics are scandalous. Williamsburg is a MIDDLE school.

Um what? What does being a middle school have to do with it? Why would WMS be much different than the high income elementary schools that feeds it?

When the boundaries were drawn, a small number of students form Glebe would have remained at Williamsburg. The neighborhoods actually pushed back b/c they didn't want to be left there and were sent to Swanson (which made Swanson still overcrowded). Had the SB considered keeping more Glebe at WMS so it wasn't just a small amount, it would have been different.