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Anonymous wrote:I dont think you need a China expert to know that there must be a flaw in your reasoning.

China has higher diabetes rates than the U.S. too.

Wait, really? Says who? That’s shocking

Yes! I was shocked too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281082/countries-with-highest-number-of-diabetics/

China has the highest number of people with diabetes (because it is the largest country) but not the highest rate.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/diabetes-rates-by-country

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont think you need a China expert to know that there must be a flaw in your reasoning.

China has higher diabetes rates than the U.S. too.

Wait, really? Says who? That’s shocking

Yes! I was shocked too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281082/countries-with-highest-number-of-diabetics/

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This is a good article about the situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/28/china-abandon-zero-covid-protests-mass-vaccination

No I know all of this. My question was why the initial policy in 2020 was taken?

I know Chinese are big on saving face which means doubling down on terrible policy but the initial 2020 “zero covid” policy never made sense to me

Other countries made zero COVID work— like Australia and New Zealand. But, we’re island-bubbles, and had a robust vaccine campaign.

They managed it for a little while. New Zealand lost the battle in February:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/new-zealand/

Australia lost the battle in January:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

In 1/2022 and 2/2022. Which is exactly what I said. That they did zero COVID until they were able to get the population vaxxed (and boosted for the vulnerable) and get processes for infections and treatment in place. They both had a significant number of infections when they opened up to the rest of the world— very low COVID deaths as a percentage of infections. Under 4000 death in NZ with 2 million infections. Just over 1600 deaths in Australia with 10 million infections. .016% of those infected died.

People don’t understand that you want to wait to get sick in a pandemic. The virus will have mutated, there will be treatments, and hospitals won’t be full.

Alas, you don't get to pick a high number to wait. Ask all those folks in the backs of ambulances in NYC, the sirens blaring morning, noon, and night in the early months.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
This is a good article about the situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/28/china-abandon-zero-covid-protests-mass-vaccination

No I know all of this. My question was why the initial policy in 2020 was taken?

I know Chinese are big on saving face which means doubling down on terrible policy but the initial 2020 “zero covid” policy never made sense to me

Other countries made zero COVID work— like Australia and New Zealand. But, we’re island-bubbles, and had a robust vaccine campaign.

They managed it for a little while. New Zealand lost the battle in February:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/new-zealand/

Australia lost the battle in January:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

In 1/2022 and 2/2022. Which is exactly what I said. That they did zero COVID until they were able to get the population vaxxed (and boosted for the vulnerable) and get processes for infections and treatment in place. They both had a significant number of infections when they opened up to the rest of the world— very low COVID deaths as a percentage of infections. Under 4000 death in NZ with 2 million infections. Just over 1600 deaths in Australia with 10 million infections. .016% of those infected died.

People don’t understand that you want to wait to get sick in a pandemic. The virus will have mutated, there will be treatments, and hospitals won’t be full.

Anonymous wrote:I believe the original death numbers in Wahun during 2020 could be hundreds of thousands. There is no way, only 5-6K would have died when China were the first one to get exposed and had a high learning curve to tackle with the issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont think you need a China expert to know that there must be a flaw in your reasoning.

China has higher diabetes rates than the U.S. too.

Wait, really? Says who? That’s shocking

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont think you need a China expert to know that there must be a flaw in your reasoning.

China has higher diabetes rates than the U.S. too.

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve never understood why xi didn’t just let covid rip through the population and achieve herd immunity while keeping the economy open/humming.

Afterall in China, economic growth is everything and he has state control to put down people if they complained that things were open.

Also, covid primarily affects older people, which are usually an economic burden.

For being a cold-eyed calculating type, xi sure sounds like a bleeding heart on covid

Your questions seem to be based on very basic assumptions that suggest you don't actually know anything about China.

+1

Or Chinese culture or the way that Chinese people view illness.

Xi didn't impose zero covid on an unwilling populace.

With the suppression of speech and dissent, how could you know? Given the protests now, there is certainly some part of the population that is unwilling to accept zero covid policies

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Anonymous wrote:They did the same things as other countries in very early 2020, except to an extreme degree because of the powers of the authoritarian government. So while other countries were instituting stay at home orders apart from the most essential of essential shopping, China was locking people into their homes. They thought that an outbreak tracking and isolation system would work, kind of like how we track rare measles outbreaks in the US. When someone tests positive for measles here, we can trace back their movements and then ask people who were in those places at those times to get tested. That’s what China was able to do after the initial lockdowns and their people lived fairly normal lives in summer/fall of 2020, while places like Australia and Western Europe, and parts of the US, were still under restrictions.

Then the variants started and Covid became more transmissible. And the new variants started to get around the vaccines especially in terms of transmission. China developed their own vaccines which aren’t as protective against the variants, whereas most developed countries were using the vaccines we have in the US + the AstraZeneca vaccine. And at some point, most countries decided that with the vaccines being widely available, the cost-benefit of more shutdowns and restrictions wasn’t worth it. They were harmful to the economy and to the political parties in power when restrictions became politically unpopular.

But there is no such cost-benefit in China where there is only one party and you have no individual freedom. There is the belief throughout society that the government can solve all problems, and so for the government to “change course” abruptly would be seen as a sign of weakness. So the only alternative was to double down on lockdowns and restrictions. Otherwise your political opponents within the CCP see you as weak.

And now, China has a population with VERY little exposure to Covid, who has had less effective vaccines, and where the elderly are skeptical of the vaccines and have a lower than average uptake rate of vaccines and especially boosters. So they’re stuck. If they ease up on the restrictions, people are going to get sick, end up in the hospital, and die. It’s like us and other countries at the end of 2020-beginning of 2021. If they keep the restrictions, the political unrest grows and it’s bad for their economy and tourism. Korea, Japan, Thailand, all have essentially no travel restrictions. Hong Kong is easing up a little and going to testing and monitoring for overseas arrivals. But China is still requiring the quarantine in a government facility. People can’t visit and their own citizens can’t leave without extending their trip another 10 days MINIMUM when they get back to China.

Western governments were very clear that they were locking down to flatten the curve. Once we had vaccines, there was no reason for any restrictions. Even locking down is a misnomer- here it mostly meant eating outside at restaurants and public school children being denied an education. Chinese people have literally starved to death because of lockdowns.

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Anonymous wrote:I believe the original death numbers in Wahun during 2020 could be hundreds of thousands. There is no way, only 5-6K would have died when China were the first one to get exposed and had a high learning curve to tackle with the issue.

+1 I agree. Who knows the truth as far as the impact of covid in China; there was some evidence that way more people died than they admitted.

I don’t agree with the way they’re handling this right now but can you imagine if they just let it rip through their society again? I don’t even want to think what kind of variants would be birthed.

Anonymous wrote:People get it over and over again. It contributes to heart issues, sterility etc. Having it "burn through" a population is just plain stupid.

Anonymous wrote:The people expected protection. Zero COVID was a good policy at first, they were able to quickly contain it. China did not suffer economic setbacks to the degree that the US did, nor did their kids lose two years of school. There were several quotes in NYT by Chinese people saying they would have rioted if the government acted like they did here. Didn’t you see the PPE their doctors had in 2020? Ours were in bandanas.

Now obviously they need to pivot but at least there are vaccinations and medications. They’ll be fine.[/quote

They have terrible vaccinations because they won’t admit that Western rna vaccines work