Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you acknowledge it or do you acknowledge today as Indigenous People's Day?

We call it "dia de la raza" or "dia de la hispanidad" and yes it is a major celebration in all Lat Am and also with latinos here.

We find the "Indigenous People' thing very strange -- pick any other day, don't devalue one of the few (only?) holiday featuring an immigrant.

Anonymous wrote:Do you acknowledge it or do you acknowledge today as Indigenous People's Day?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Italian Americans and Catholics have a right to be upset. I’d have no problem swapping out another more acceptable Italian hero, of which there are many. Or, just call it Italian American Day. But to just swap out and call it Indigenous Day is incredibly intellectually lazy. It’s similar to forcing everyone to celebrate Juneteenth which only freed some slaves (in the Confederacy) instead of December 6 which was when the 13th amendment was enacted abolishing all forced labor. I hate intellectually lazy.

Who is forced to celebrate Juneteenth?

I’m guessing every school and corporation that doesn’t want to get burned to the ground?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.

So now we’re supposed to just ignore the ugly historical racism against Italian-Americans?

Talk about revisionist!

So back in the good old days when people didn't question Columbus Day you think people were more aware of the ugliness you mention?

Yeah, right. Few people knew about the mass lynching in New Orleans.

You do realize Italian-Americans were horribly persecuted; and even lynched in some cases, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.

So now we’re supposed to just ignore the ugly historical racism against Italian-Americans?

Talk about revisionist!

So back in the good old days when people didn't question Columbus Day you think people were more aware of the ugliness you mention?

Yeah, right. Few people knew about the mass lynching in New Orleans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Italian Americans and Catholics have a right to be upset. I’d have no problem swapping out another more acceptable Italian hero, of which there are many. Or, just call it Italian American Day. But to just swap out and call it Indigenous Day is incredibly intellectually lazy. It’s similar to forcing everyone to celebrate Juneteenth which only freed some slaves (in the Confederacy) instead of December 6 which was when the 13th amendment was enacted abolishing all forced labor. I hate intellectually lazy.

Who is forced to celebrate Juneteenth?

I’m guessing every school and corporation that doesn’t want to get burned to the ground?

Ah so public backlash against a corporation is not okay? Thought y'all liked free markets?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Italian Americans and Catholics have a right to be upset. I’d have no problem swapping out another more acceptable Italian hero, of which there are many. Or, just call it Italian American Day. But to just swap out and call it Indigenous Day is incredibly intellectually lazy. It’s similar to forcing everyone to celebrate Juneteenth which only freed some slaves (in the Confederacy) instead of December 6 which was when the 13th amendment was enacted abolishing all forced labor. I hate intellectually lazy.

Who is forced to celebrate Juneteenth?

I’m guessing every school and corporation that doesn’t want to get burned to the ground?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Italian Americans and Catholics have a right to be upset. I’d have no problem swapping out another more acceptable Italian hero, of which there are many. Or, just call it Italian American Day. But to just swap out and call it Indigenous Day is incredibly intellectually lazy. It’s similar to forcing everyone to celebrate Juneteenth which only freed some slaves (in the Confederacy) instead of December 6 which was when the 13th amendment was enacted abolishing all forced labor. I hate intellectually lazy.

Who is forced to celebrate Juneteenth?

Anonymous wrote:I think Italian Americans and Catholics have a right to be upset. I’d have no problem swapping out another more acceptable Italian hero, of which there are many. Or, just call it Italian American Day. But to just swap out and call it Indigenous Day is incredibly intellectually lazy. It’s similar to forcing everyone to celebrate Juneteenth which only freed some slaves (in the Confederacy) instead of December 6 which was when the 13th amendment was enacted abolishing all forced labor. I hate intellectually lazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.

So now we’re supposed to just ignore the ugly historical racism against Italian-Americans?

Talk about revisionist!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.

So now we’re supposed to just ignore the ugly historical racism against Italian-Americans?

Talk about revisionist!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.

So now we’re supposed to just ignore the ugly historical racism against Italian-Americans?

Talk about revisionist!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Acknowledge" is a weird word to use in this question?

I acknowledge that both are holidays. Columbus Day seems kind of stupid in light of what we know about his "discovery," that he wasn't even the first European to bump into North America, and that he was a worse-than-average human even considering the standards of his time.

But, all of that said, the holiday doesn't provoke strong emotions in me. Yes, European contact was horrible for indigenous peoples. But that was inevitable. Whatever mistreatment was inflicted by the Europeans, the impact of disease was always going to be several orders of magnitude more destructive than anything the Europeans could inflict intentionally.

I'm more sympathetic toward the sentiments behind Indigenous People's Day, but it feels artificial and contrived. It's not its own thing but is rather a reaction to Columbus Day; so there is still a European frame about the whole thing.

Agree with this whole post.

Columbus Day is also a contrived holiday basically invented as a reaction to discrimination against Italian Americans:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-columbus-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

But I think the point that discovery and settlement of North America was inevitable is a good one. We don't vilify all the other explorers.