Anonymous wrote: A lot of y'all have antiquated views about men stepping out and women staying celibate. That is absolutely not the case in today's world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

Traditionally marital loyalty for men did not necessarily extend to sexual loyalty. "Wife" is primarily a status and a title, not necessarily a marker for permanent and sole sex partner. Men can and do sleep with other women - the wife is the public partner, co-owner of assets, mother of children, member of family. In a man's mind, these things are not threatened by semisecret sex with others because he does not plan to elevate them to the status of a wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

Traditionally marital loyalty for men did not necessarily extend to sexual loyalty. "Wife" is primarily a status and a title, not necessarily a marker for permanent and sole sex partner. Men can and do sleep with other women - the wife is the public partner, co-owner of assets, mother of children, member of family. In a man's mind, these things are not threatened by semisecret sex with others because he does not plan to elevate them to the status of a wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Keep in mind "no-sex marriage" means that he continues to sleep with his AP.

Obviously, but who cares? If you decide you don’t wanna have sex with them again but you’re staying married because of the marriage it doesn’t matter. I think people really can’t understand they can actually decide they will never have sex with their husbands again and then they don’t care if they’re sleeping with anybody else. That’s actually a good thing because then he’s not going to bother his wife anymore he doesn’t want to be with him. I had a no sex marriage seriously because I couldn’t stand him and I was staying because of the kids for the longest time but we still ended up divorced but I full out told him I didn’t care if he slept with anybody else. I was never sleeping with him again. I did not want to be married but I was trapped geographically and I had to stay and eventually I was able to leave because I am moving to the right location but it took almost a decade. He did not have a mistress but I told him he could have one and I wouldn’t divorce him over cheating but I would divorce him over being a jerk and eventually I did. (Low T). The point is if a woman decides she’s done having sex with her husband she doesn’t really care if he’s having sex with his AP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Narcissists are a subset of the population. Remember we're talking maybe 1 in 10 people. Of course, among cheaters it's going to be a higher percentage. But people aren't narcissists just because they have a Y chromosome.

You have to remember that prosocial people tend to come together for common causes . . . they're in faith communities, they're on non-profit boards, they're doing neighborhood clean-ups. If you don't know people like this, it's probably because you don't self-select to be part of communitarian groups. Likewise, Machiavellian people tend to participate in activities that are all about pleasure and gaining power.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

This was like my story. My therapist has said there are way more of us, but it’s a secret thing in society so you only hear about the ones that split up or someone abandoned the family. It felt better to learn many people face it at some point in a long marriage. But it’s very isolating to go through because it’s not something you tend to confide in anyone if you plan to reconcile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Keep in mind "no-sex marriage" means that he continues to sleep with his AP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Regarding no sex, out of safety concerns: Imagine the alternative of going back out on the dating scene. Think of all the questionably safe, leap-of-faith sex (even with STDs testing) you'd have to have then. Potentially beng exposed secondhand to a few people through your spouse versus being directly exposed on the dating scene -- is the latter really better?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.