Anonymous
09/28/2022 10:10
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
My son is in scouts and these days it is so strict with the safety precautions. My son is not allowed to share tent with anyone except his dad. He can’t share a tent with another boy at all. There are so many others as well. Adults are never alone with a child.
It has been a wonderful experience for my child so far.
It has been a wonderful experience for my child so far.
Anonymous
09/28/2022 10:02
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
People obviously have strong feelings.
My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).
As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.
The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.
On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.
Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.
My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).
As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.
The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.
On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.
Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.
Anonymous
09/28/2022 08:45
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
No words!! It is really best that your family does not participate. That is all I can say.
This is what they were saying in 2019!!!
"We are outraged that there have been times that individuals took advantage of our program to take advantage of our program to abuse innocent," said Chief Scout Michael Surbaugh. "We do not keep any reports of sexual abuse secret or hidden from the proper authorities."
Scout leaders said in 2018 there were only five known abuse victims of the 2.2 million youth in the program.
That’s who they are! They had these files all along. They KNEW! 3 years ago they were STILL lying about it. Still trying to protect the rotten core. I guess as long as it didn’t happen to you it doesn’t matter. I guess as long as YOUR scout isn’t rejected from a pack in a church for being gay it doesn’t matter. It always seems that those who make the biggest show of being good and decent are really just morally void. All the information is out there. If you are thinking about scouting you don’t have to listen to me, read it all for yourself. It’s all out there.
Your post shows you need to read up more on current Scouts. You have no idea about the changes that have been made.
They have never copped to the fact that they intentionally and actively hid and allowed the abusers to continue their abuse and didn’t report them to authorities. The most you get is “we failed you”. No, they actively betrayed scouts and knowingly sent them out with wolves.
They still allow packs to discriminate against the LGBT community. They’re so inclusive they let people exclude.
They are still withholding files and documentation.
The bankruptcy filing is so they can only pay out the minimum they have to pay and protect the organization above the boys and men they destroyed. Peoples lives were demolished. You think $3,500 to 2.7 mil (very few will see that) makes up for a lifetime of drug use, failed relationships, failed potential etc…
Tell me what about the above isn’t true?
Anonymous
09/28/2022 08:28
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
No words!! It is really best that your family does not participate. That is all I can say.
This is what they were saying in 2019!!!
"We are outraged that there have been times that individuals took advantage of our program to take advantage of our program to abuse innocent," said Chief Scout Michael Surbaugh. "We do not keep any reports of sexual abuse secret or hidden from the proper authorities."
Scout leaders said in 2018 there were only five known abuse victims of the 2.2 million youth in the program.
That’s who they are! They had these files all along. They KNEW! 3 years ago they were STILL lying about it. Still trying to protect the rotten core. I guess as long as it didn’t happen to you it doesn’t matter. I guess as long as YOUR scout isn’t rejected from a pack in a church for being gay it doesn’t matter. It always seems that those who make the biggest show of being good and decent are really just morally void. All the information is out there. If you are thinking about scouting you don’t have to listen to me, read it all for yourself. It’s all out there.
Your post shows you need to read up more on current Scouts. You have no idea about the changes that have been made.
Anonymous
09/28/2022 07:46
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
No words!! It is really best that your family does not participate. That is all I can say.
This is what they were saying in 2019!!!
"We are outraged that there have been times that individuals took advantage of our program to take advantage of our program to abuse innocent," said Chief Scout Michael Surbaugh. "We do not keep any reports of sexual abuse secret or hidden from the proper authorities."
Scout leaders said in 2018 there were only five known abuse victims of the 2.2 million youth in the program.
That’s who they are! They had these files all along. They KNEW! 3 years ago they were STILL lying about it. Still trying to protect the rotten core. I guess as long as it didn’t happen to you it doesn’t matter. I guess as long as YOUR scout isn’t rejected from a pack in a church for being gay it doesn’t matter. It always seems that those who make the biggest show of being good and decent are really just morally void. All the information is out there. If you are thinking about scouting you don’t have to listen to me, read it all for yourself. It’s all out there.
Anonymous
09/28/2022 04:58
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
No words!! It is really best that your family does not participate. That is all I can say.
+1
Anonymous
09/27/2022 21:38
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
No words!! It is really best that your family does not participate. That is all I can say.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 21:03
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My father and husband both loved their time in boyscout camp. They also are both firmly against any child (or grandchild) of theirs participating, because it’s not worth the risk. It’s true that any organization *could* accidentally hire a predator, but it’s very different to sign your child up to be in the care of an organization which *did* hire predators, and go to great lengths to protect them. If, heaven forbid, your child is abused in Scouts how do you look them in the eye and say you tried to protect them when all the information was out there?
The decades old info is out there yes. Public schools used to paddle kids. It does not keep me from sending my kids.
Would that make you feel better if your child was abused? I somehow don’t think I would be able to look at mine and say “yes we knew there was a long history of sexual abuse and coverup but you know we sent you to public school too!” And think that validated my choices. I don’t blame parents who sent their kids in the time before this was widely known but I believe when we know better we do better.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 20:47
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:The BSA is and will continue to be a strong and well-run organization. Like the schools and other youth organizations, it has shameful periods in its past (including youth abuse) that it has corrected and is moving on from. There is a DCUM group that is immovably anti-BSA and is well represented by commenters on this thread. They get a kick out of recycling the same old outdated stuff. I suggest the rest of us drop interest in this thread.
By "in its past" I think you meant "since its inception" and shameful doesn't even begin to touch the heel dragging they are doing still today. Go check out the executive compensation at BSA and then think about who is most important to them. You know who else had a strong well run organization? The Nazis. Sure they did some 'shameful' stuff but they did run things very efficiently and my train always arrived on time so.../s. Also what kind of person thinks that someone gets a 'kick' out of standing up for abused boys who are now men.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 20:12
Subject: Re:Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We loved Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and we are progressives. I agree you want to look around and find the right pack/troop.
So many great activities and life skills learned.
Kids and leaders are trained every year on how to prevent abuse.
DS is now an Eagle Scout.
I could have written this post.
Scouts was great for my kid. I am sad how many kids will be robbed of the experience because their parents kept them away from it.
Funny cuz I’m sad for the boys and men who had their lives destroyed and are being denied justice and reparations even today. All these abused boys and men are former scouts so you’d think you would feel some allegiance and solidarity for them. But maybe that’s not what scouting is.
There is also the issue of attorneys recruiting huge numbers of victims with billboards and promises of cash in NY State..
https://legalnewsline.com/stories/599170175-whistleblower-firm-partly-owned-by-lawyer-paid-employees-to-recruit-puff-up-sexual-abuse-claims-against-boy-scouts
I hope you are homeschooling then because abuse and cover ups happened in schools too. And I'm sure you don't let your kids particpate in sports or watch the Olympics either.
I’m a DP, but how old are your kids now? I think it’s fundamentally different for people who enrolled their kids before the scope of the abuse was well known vs. those of us now looking at an organization that has admitted to covering up the abuse of thousands.
There is also the issue of attorneys recruiting huge numbers of victims with billboards and promises of cash in NY State..
https://legalnewsline.com/stories/599170175-whistl...buse-claims-against-boy-scouts
Anonymous
09/27/2022 20:11
Subject: Re:Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We loved Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and we are progressives. I agree you want to look around and find the right pack/troop.
So many great activities and life skills learned.
Kids and leaders are trained every year on how to prevent abuse.
DS is now an Eagle Scout.
I could have written this post.
Scouts was great for my kid. I am sad how many kids will be robbed of the experience because their parents kept them away from it.
Funny cuz I’m sad for the boys and men who had their lives destroyed and are being denied justice and reparations even today. All these abused boys and men are former scouts so you’d think you would feel some allegiance and solidarity for them. But maybe that’s not what scouting is.
There is also the issue of attorneys recruiting huge numbers of victims with billboards and promises of cash in NY State..
https://legalnewsline.com/stories/599170175-whistleblower-firm-partly-owned-by-lawyer-paid-employees-to-recruit-puff-up-sexual-abuse-claims-against-boy-scouts
I hope you are homeschooling then because abuse and cover ups happened in schools too. And I'm sure you don't let your kids particpate in sports or watch the Olympics either.
I’m a DP, but how old are your kids now? I think it’s fundamentally different for people who enrolled their kids before the scope of the abuse was well known vs. those of us now looking at an organization that has admitted to covering up the abuse of thousands.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 20:07
Subject: Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:My father and husband both loved their time in boyscout camp. They also are both firmly against any child (or grandchild) of theirs participating, because it’s not worth the risk. It’s true that any organization *could* accidentally hire a predator, but it’s very different to sign your child up to be in the care of an organization which *did* hire predators, and go to great lengths to protect them. If, heaven forbid, your child is abused in Scouts how do you look them in the eye and say you tried to protect them when all the information was out there?
The decades old info is out there yes. Public schools used to paddle kids. It does not keep me from sending my kids.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 20:03
Subject: Re:Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We loved Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and we are progressives. I agree you want to look around and find the right pack/troop.
So many great activities and life skills learned.
Kids and leaders are trained every year on how to prevent abuse.
DS is now an Eagle Scout.
I could have written this post.
Scouts was great for my kid. I am sad how many kids will be robbed of the experience because their parents kept them away from it.
Funny cuz I’m sad for the boys and men who had their lives destroyed and are being denied justice and reparations even today. All these abused boys and men are former scouts so you’d think you would feel some allegiance and solidarity for them. But maybe that’s not what scouting is.
I hope you are homeschooling then because abuse and cover ups happened in schools too. And I'm sure you don't let your kids particpate in sports or watch the Olympics either.
I’m a DP, but how old are your kids now? I think it’s fundamentally different for people who enrolled their kids before the scope of the abuse was well known vs. those of us now looking at an organization that has admitted to covering up the abuse of thousands.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 19:48
Subject: Re:Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We loved Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and we are progressives. I agree you want to look around and find the right pack/troop.
So many great activities and life skills learned.
Kids and leaders are trained every year on how to prevent abuse.
DS is now an Eagle Scout.
I could have written this post.
Scouts was great for my kid. I am sad how many kids will be robbed of the experience because their parents kept them away from it.
Funny cuz I’m sad for the boys and men who had their lives destroyed and are being denied justice and reparations even today. All these abused boys and men are former scouts so you’d think you would feel some allegiance and solidarity for them. But maybe that’s not what scouting is.
I hope you are homeschooling then because abuse and cover ups happened in schools too. And I'm sure you don't let your kids particpate in sports or watch the Olympics either.
Anonymous
09/27/2022 19:46
Subject: Re:Thoughts on cub scouts
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We loved Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and we are progressives. I agree you want to look around and find the right pack/troop.
So many great activities and life skills learned.
Kids and leaders are trained every year on how to prevent abuse.
DS is now an Eagle Scout.
I could have written this post.
Scouts was great for my kid. I am sad how many kids will be robbed of the experience because their parents kept them away from it.
Way better alternatives out there than this unremorseful cult
Unremorseful?