Anonymous
09/22/2022 13:01
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.
You are pulling all these "facts" from the lawsuit itself, filed by the plaintiff, which never went to court. Assault charges were filed but then dropped so any allegations of assault are unsubstantiated. He was convicted of hazing meaning he participated in in hazing, which sucks. But the whole point of fraternity hazing (which is awful) is that it is institutionalized abuse. You take insecure college kids who are looking for somewhere to belong, you abuse them, and then you tell them they now get to abuse other people who want admission to their club. Hazing is terrible but it is on the organization.
Keep in mind if Hamm joined that fraternity, he must have gone through the same hazing rituals. Meaning the stuff he participated in with the plaintiff in that suit likely happened to him, too. And then recall this was a guy who'd lost both his parents, had been neglected growing up... it's not an excuse for committing acts of violence against something but basically he joined a cult and bad things were done to him and he did bad things to others. And after that happened there's not a single report of Hamm being violent or hurtful. He spend nearly 20 years in a relationship with a woman who still speaks of him affectionately. He is well liked by friends and castmates, including the children he worked with on Mad Men.
There's nothing to indicate that he for sure did the things he is accused of having done, only in participating in hazing rituals in this messed up fraternity he joined. It's really good the hazing came to light and the fraternity was shut down. I feel awful for what happened to the plaintiff in that case. But you and I don't actually know exactly what transpired or what Hamm's role was, and all indications are that he never did anything even resembling those allegations ever again. Also, he was held accountable for the hazing! And he didn't fight the assault charges, they were dropped.
I am really big on accountability but to me it sounds like Hamm was accountable for his actions, and that the real culprit there was the fraternity that was rightfully closed. It's weird to keep holding this against Hamm simply because he's the one person involved in that incident who you know later became rich and famous.
I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and you’ve written a reasonable post. But one thing that you’re leaving out is the incredible power that people get when they become famous, and the power to control their image and what is said about them. I wouldn’t have a lot of faith in the fact that he seems to have an untarnished public reputation now. I mean, so did Harvey Weinstein. peoples tendency to stay quiet when it comes to people in power is incredible. So, it might be unfair, but my gut instinct is to think that someone who, as a young adult, nearly kills someone in sadistic behavior is not a really great person at the core. It may be unfair, but I think that is more likely than not. Also, to what degree has the sob story about his childhood been exaggerated or created by his publicity machine. People have no idea how much effort and money famous people can put to create a certain image. Worth being skeptical about all of this.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 12:53
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anyone who would participate in that kind of hazing has a serious personality disorder. There is no justifying it, at all. It reflects cruelty, pure and simple.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 12:30
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
“Hysterical” poster here. I shouldn’t be surprised that grown men (I presume) try to bury the obvious sadism and trauma of this case in legalese because they think Don Draper is just so cool and “the courts took care of it”. All successful male predators have their cultural and institutional enablers (male and female)…and they always use the same tactics of contextualizing away the harsh reality and calling their critics crazy.
Sure, context matters. But only so much. War crimes are still crimes even if everybody else is doing it. Rapist priests are still guilty if they were victims themselves. All deserve due process and to have their own side heard. But to actual defend and look up to someone you know committed a series of violent acts with the level of personal anger described? Who expresses no remorse?
I hope that with Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, Cosby, Batali, etc., this pattern is shifting. These men ruin lives and get to go on and have amazing careers because it’s more important to you to *under* react and stay calm, cool and collected like your on screen idols.
Sure, context matters. But only so much. War crimes are still crimes even if everybody else is doing it. Rapist priests are still guilty if they were victims themselves. All deserve due process and to have their own side heard. But to actual defend and look up to someone you know committed a series of violent acts with the level of personal anger described? Who expresses no remorse?
I hope that with Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, Cosby, Batali, etc., this pattern is shifting. These men ruin lives and get to go on and have amazing careers because it’s more important to you to *under* react and stay calm, cool and collected like your on screen idols.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 11:23
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.
You are pulling all these "facts" from the lawsuit itself, filed by the plaintiff, which never went to court. Assault charges were filed but then dropped so any allegations of assault are unsubstantiated. He was convicted of hazing meaning he participated in in hazing, which sucks. But the whole point of fraternity hazing (which is awful) is that it is institutionalized abuse. You take insecure college kids who are looking for somewhere to belong, you abuse them, and then you tell them they now get to abuse other people who want admission to their club. Hazing is terrible but it is on the organization.
Keep in mind if Hamm joined that fraternity, he must have gone through the same hazing rituals. Meaning the stuff he participated in with the plaintiff in that suit likely happened to him, too. And then recall this was a guy who'd lost both his parents, had been neglected growing up... it's not an excuse for committing acts of violence against something but basically he joined a cult and bad things were done to him and he did bad things to others. And after that happened there's not a single report of Hamm being violent or hurtful. He spend nearly 20 years in a relationship with a woman who still speaks of him affectionately. He is well liked by friends and castmates, including the children he worked with on Mad Men.
There's nothing to indicate that he for sure did the things he is accused of having done, only in participating in hazing rituals in this messed up fraternity he joined. It's really good the hazing came to light and the fraternity was shut down. I feel awful for what happened to the plaintiff in that case. But you and I don't actually know exactly what transpired or what Hamm's role was, and all indications are that he never did anything even resembling those allegations ever again. Also, he was held accountable for the hazing! And he didn't fight the assault charges, they were dropped.
I am really big on accountability but to me it sounds like Hamm was accountable for his actions, and that the real culprit there was the fraternity that was rightfully closed. It's weird to keep holding this against Hamm simply because he's the one person involved in that incident who you know later became rich and famous.
"Callous" poster here. Thank you for saying this better than I could.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 08:40
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Lawyer here.
You are pulling all these "facts" from the lawsuit itself, filed by the plaintiff, which never went to court. Assault charges were filed but then dropped so any allegations of assault are unsubstantiated. He was convicted of hazing meaning he participated in in hazing, which sucks. But the whole point of fraternity hazing (which is awful) is that it is institutionalized abuse. You take insecure college kids who are looking for somewhere to belong, you abuse them, and then you tell them they now get to abuse other people who want admission to their club. Hazing is terrible but it is on the organization.
Keep in mind if Hamm joined that fraternity, he must have gone through the same hazing rituals. Meaning the stuff he participated in with the plaintiff in that suit likely happened to him, too. And then recall this was a guy who'd lost both his parents, had been neglected growing up... it's not an excuse for committing acts of violence against something but basically he joined a cult and bad things were done to him and he did bad things to others. And after that happened there's not a single report of Hamm being violent or hurtful. He spend nearly 20 years in a relationship with a woman who still speaks of him affectionately. He is well liked by friends and castmates, including the children he worked with on Mad Men.
There's nothing to indicate that he for sure did the things he is accused of having done, only in participating in hazing rituals in this messed up fraternity he joined. It's really good the hazing came to light and the fraternity was shut down. I feel awful for what happened to the plaintiff in that case. But you and I don't actually know exactly what transpired or what Hamm's role was, and all indications are that he never did anything even resembling those allegations ever again. Also, he was held accountable for the hazing! And he didn't fight the assault charges, they were dropped.
I am really big on accountability but to me it sounds like Hamm was accountable for his actions, and that the real culprit there was the fraternity that was rightfully closed. It's weird to keep holding this against Hamm simply because he's the one person involved in that incident who you know later became rich and famous.
You are pulling all these "facts" from the lawsuit itself, filed by the plaintiff, which never went to court. Assault charges were filed but then dropped so any allegations of assault are unsubstantiated. He was convicted of hazing meaning he participated in in hazing, which sucks. But the whole point of fraternity hazing (which is awful) is that it is institutionalized abuse. You take insecure college kids who are looking for somewhere to belong, you abuse them, and then you tell them they now get to abuse other people who want admission to their club. Hazing is terrible but it is on the organization.
Keep in mind if Hamm joined that fraternity, he must have gone through the same hazing rituals. Meaning the stuff he participated in with the plaintiff in that suit likely happened to him, too. And then recall this was a guy who'd lost both his parents, had been neglected growing up... it's not an excuse for committing acts of violence against something but basically he joined a cult and bad things were done to him and he did bad things to others. And after that happened there's not a single report of Hamm being violent or hurtful. He spend nearly 20 years in a relationship with a woman who still speaks of him affectionately. He is well liked by friends and castmates, including the children he worked with on Mad Men.
There's nothing to indicate that he for sure did the things he is accused of having done, only in participating in hazing rituals in this messed up fraternity he joined. It's really good the hazing came to light and the fraternity was shut down. I feel awful for what happened to the plaintiff in that case. But you and I don't actually know exactly what transpired or what Hamm's role was, and all indications are that he never did anything even resembling those allegations ever again. Also, he was held accountable for the hazing! And he didn't fight the assault charges, they were dropped.
I am really big on accountability but to me it sounds like Hamm was accountable for his actions, and that the real culprit there was the fraternity that was rightfully closed. It's weird to keep holding this against Hamm simply because he's the one person involved in that incident who you know later became rich and famous.
Anonymous
09/22/2022 08:25
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
So, did he and Flo break up?Anonymous wrote:with his 34 year old gf
https://pagesix.com/2022/09/20/jon-hamm-says-he-may-marry-girlfriend-anna-osceola/
What about his long suffering long term ex gf who really wanted children?
Anonymous
09/22/2022 07:23
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It’s weird to call it an “incident”. It was a vicious, life ruining, unprovoked sex crime. To me, personally, it’s impossible for a decent person to have done that. DUI, theft.. I can forgive. If he did what they say, he is a sadist, plain and simple.
The details aren’t stomach turning to you? You think he should be a parent? Now I have to go look up what Mitt Romney apparently did…sheesh
You sound completely hysterical. It was part of a fraternity hazing where are participants were assuredly drinking heavily, and where the pledge could have left. He was punished, the fraternity was shut down.
You sound completely callous.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 23:35
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
I'll believe it when it happens. If he does have a baby, then he will sit there like Alec Baldwin and never change a diaper, do baths, etc.
Do what he wants like he does not have a kid. Wifey does it all while he looks at her with disgust and he only becomes happy and animated while texting his new sidepiece.
Do what he wants like he does not have a kid. Wifey does it all while he looks at her with disgust and he only becomes happy and animated while texting his new sidepiece.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 20:49
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Guess he's finally grown up.
Here's the scariest twist in this saga - he left UT to become a daycare worker in St. Louis. Yikes!!!
University records show that he left school in the same semester that the alleged hazing occurred, the AP reported. He returned to St. Louis, where he became a daycare teacher at the University of Missouri.
Give it a rest
Anonymous
09/21/2022 20:19
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Guess he's finally grown up.
Here's the scariest twist in this saga - he left UT to become a daycare worker in St. Louis. Yikes!!!
University records show that he left school in the same semester that the alleged hazing occurred, the AP reported. He returned to St. Louis, where he became a daycare teacher at the University of Missouri.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 20:16
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Hard to weigh which is worse - fracturing the victim's spine, beating him to the point where he nearly lost a kidney or leading the victim around “with the claw of a hammer beneath his genitals.”
From the Interwebs:
Hamm became “mad, I mean really mad,” when Sanders was unable to recite things he was supposed to memorize about the frat members. For instance, Hamm’s list included “Young Bobby,” ”MC Hammer,” and “UT Football Punching Bag.” Sanders also alleged that Hamm hit him with a paddle and shoved his face in the dirt. “He rears back and hits me left-handed, and he hit me right over my right kidney, I mean square over it,” Sanders said in the lawsuit. “Good solid hit and that, that stood me right up.” He said he suffered a fractured spine and nearly lost a kidney, and he noted that Hamm participated “till the very end.” Hamm was one of “the most serious offenders,” Travis County Attorney Ken Oden said at the time, according to the Washington Post.
From the Interwebs:
Hamm became “mad, I mean really mad,” when Sanders was unable to recite things he was supposed to memorize about the frat members. For instance, Hamm’s list included “Young Bobby,” ”MC Hammer,” and “UT Football Punching Bag.” Sanders also alleged that Hamm hit him with a paddle and shoved his face in the dirt. “He rears back and hits me left-handed, and he hit me right over my right kidney, I mean square over it,” Sanders said in the lawsuit. “Good solid hit and that, that stood me right up.” He said he suffered a fractured spine and nearly lost a kidney, and he noted that Hamm participated “till the very end.” Hamm was one of “the most serious offenders,” Travis County Attorney Ken Oden said at the time, according to the Washington Post.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 19:47
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:It’s weird to call it an “incident”. It was a vicious, life ruining, unprovoked sex crime. To me, personally, it’s impossible for a decent person to have done that. DUI, theft.. I can forgive. If he did what they say, he is a sadist, plain and simple.
The details aren’t stomach turning to you? You think he should be a parent? Now I have to go look up what Mitt Romney apparently did…sheesh
You sound completely hysterical. It was part of a fraternity hazing where are participants were assuredly drinking heavily, and where the pledge could have left. He was punished, the fraternity was shut down.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 16:25
Subject: Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Guess he's finally grown up.
Anonymous
09/21/2022 16:24
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
It’s weird to call it an “incident”. It was a vicious, life ruining, unprovoked sex crime. To me, personally, it’s impossible for a decent person to have done that. DUI, theft.. I can forgive. If he did what they say, he is a sadist, plain and simple.
The details aren’t stomach turning to you? You think he should be a parent? Now I have to go look up what Mitt Romney apparently did…sheesh
The details aren’t stomach turning to you? You think he should be a parent? Now I have to go look up what Mitt Romney apparently did…sheesh
Anonymous
09/21/2022 16:14
Subject: Re:Jon Hamm is considering marrying and having children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How can PP’s still say things like “I hope he’s happy” after reading about the hazing? Are you parents? Imagine his victim were your son. Or you believe it’s not true…or that time heals all wounds? Please explain it to me because I genuinely don’t get it. I can’t see a photo of him without feeling revulsion
Because I'm 50 years old and I'm not going to allow a fraternity hazing incident from over 30 years ago, one for which he was prosecuted, punished, and then received received probation for influence my perception of him for all time.
Yes you're deciding he's a "nice guy" based on exactly nothing?