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Anonymous wrote:I think HB tried out the block system and kids voted to go back to traditional.

Why do the HBW kids get to set their own schedule while all the other middle school kids have no say in the matter? That’s so ridiculous.

That's part of the HBW model and philosphy: the students have more input into their education and are supposed to take more individual responsibility in return.

Basically the use the model to justify anything they want; remember when their model required the painted walls and huge campus of Stratford, and how the model caps the size of the program. Oh the model supports shorter periods, how convenient.

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

NP The base case in APS is Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Taking it in 7th or 8th grade is considered accelerated. For kids getting ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they take Pre-Algebra in 6th, which covers content from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade (standard 8th grade math, not Algebra). At the end of the course, they take the Math 8 SOL to see if they have sufficient mastery to go on Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It is technically three years of content they're covering, but there is overlap between 7th and 8th grade math. Kids taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade cover two years of content in Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (7th and 8th grade content), but again, there is overlap between those two years.

How many APS kids take Algebra 1 in 9th grade? I thought the vast majority take it in 8th, with a few taking it in 7th?

That's because parents push accelerated math and can't stand the thought of their child not being "at the top." Both of mine stayed grade level throughout middle school: one because they hated math so much and developed such a strong mental block toward being "able" to do math despite being "gifted" math in elementary; the other, first of all, because APS placed them in regular 6th grade math despite "gifted" and high performance/test scores (I always thought a potential bias against girls and/or wanting to limit #s, but whatever) But then, secondly, she chose to remain on grade level after that despite them wanting her to bump up.

I don't know the numbers; but I don't believe it's "the vast majority" who take Algebra in 8th.

Roughly 60% took Algebra 1 by 8th grade before covid (This includes those who took it in 7th and 8th.)

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Anonymous wrote:I’m a HS teacher and have never taught anything but block. We don’t lecture the entire 88 minutes. In my class it looks like this: warm up activity/attendance question, independent reading, maybe a journal prompt, mini lesson and group practice, independent practice. Or, warm up/read/journal prompt, “workshop” time where some kids are drafting, some are revising, some are in a small group with me while I reteach something.

So study hall for half the time.

Um, no. Independent reading is important for building reading endurance, vocabulary, comprehension. It has measured and proven benefits. Journaling does as well, when students are writing to a prompt they are practicing the writing muscle and developing ideas they’ll later use in their formal written pieces. Independent practice = the graded work on whatever skill we are currently working on. Maybe if you guys knew what words meant and what teaching looks like you wouldn’t be losing your minds over 88 minute classes.

What are you doing while kids do independent work?

OMG can we please stop second-guessing and armchair quarterbacking teachers? Go look at that thread on FCPS teachers who are all miserable and want to quit!

This teacher probably has a million other things to do while kids are reading, including perhaps grading papers or planning the next lesson! Why is there so much complaining. Do we want our kids to have subs all year?

Your response gets to my point. The county does not give them adequate planning time or support, and thus are allocating class time for administrative tasks to save money. That’s why the county likes block scheduling.

Okay, so you prefer traditional scheduling where they have no time during the day at all to do those things and have to work all night at home? That's why we are losing teachers!

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

I believe they are one and the same. In the middle school program of studies, there is only one listing, Pre-Algebra for 8th graders.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Middle-School-POS-2022-23-FINAL.pdf
DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

No, "normal" is pre-algebra in 8th. Advanced is algebra in 8th. Algebra is a high school course. That's why they get high school credit for it if they pass it in middle school - whatever year they take it.
"Stretching out Math 6, 7,8 over three years" is called taking grade level math each year. There's nothing "remedial" about that.

Then what is the difference between taking Math 8 vs. pre-algebra in 8th?

I believe they are one and the same. In the middle school program of studies, there is only one listing, Pre-Algebra for 8th graders.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Middle-School-POS-2022-23-FINAL.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m a HS teacher and have never taught anything but block. We don’t lecture the entire 88 minutes. In my class it looks like this: warm up activity/attendance question, independent reading, maybe a journal prompt, mini lesson and group practice, independent practice. Or, warm up/read/journal prompt, “workshop” time where some kids are drafting, some are revising, some are in a small group with me while I reteach something.

So study hall for half the time.

Um, no. Independent reading is important for building reading endurance, vocabulary, comprehension. It has measured and proven benefits. Journaling does as well, when students are writing to a prompt they are practicing the writing muscle and developing ideas they’ll later use in their formal written pieces. Independent practice = the graded work on whatever skill we are currently working on. Maybe if you guys knew what words meant and what teaching looks like you wouldn’t be losing your minds over 88 minute classes.

What are you doing while kids do independent work?

OMG can we please stop second-guessing and armchair quarterbacking teachers? Go look at that thread on FCPS teachers who are all miserable and want to quit!

This teacher probably has a million other things to do while kids are reading, including perhaps grading papers or planning the next lesson! Why is there so much complaining. Do we want our kids to have subs all year?

Your response gets to my point. The county does not give them adequate planning time or support, and thus are allocating class time for administrative tasks to save money. That’s why the county likes block scheduling.

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

NP The base case in APS is Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Taking it in 7th or 8th grade is considered accelerated. For kids getting ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they take Pre-Algebra in 6th, which covers content from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade (standard 8th grade math, not Algebra). At the end of the course, they take the Math 8 SOL to see if they have sufficient mastery to go on Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It is technically three years of content they're covering, but there is overlap between 7th and 8th grade math. Kids taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade cover two years of content in Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (7th and 8th grade content), but again, there is overlap between those two years.

How many APS kids take Algebra 1 in 9th grade? I thought the vast majority take it in 8th, with a few taking it in 7th?

That's because parents push accelerated math and can't stand the thought of their child not being "at the top." Both of mine stayed grade level throughout middle school: one because they hated math so much and developed such a strong mental block toward being "able" to do math despite being "gifted" math in elementary; the other, first of all, because APS placed them in regular 6th grade math despite "gifted" and high performance/test scores (I always thought a potential bias against girls and/or wanting to limit #s, but whatever) But then, secondly, she chose to remain on grade level after that despite them wanting her to bump up.

I don't know the numbers; but I don't believe it's "the vast majority" who take Algebra in 8th.

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

No, "normal" is pre-algebra in 8th. Advanced is algebra in 8th. Algebra is a high school course. That's why they get high school credit for it if they pass it in middle school - whatever year they take it.
"Stretching out Math 6, 7,8 over three years" is called taking grade level math each year. There's nothing "remedial" about that.

Then what is the difference between taking Math 8 vs. pre-algebra in 8th?

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

NP The base case in APS is Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Taking it in 7th or 8th grade is considered accelerated. For kids getting ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they take Pre-Algebra in 6th, which covers content from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade (standard 8th grade math, not Algebra). At the end of the course, they take the Math 8 SOL to see if they have sufficient mastery to go on Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It is technically three years of content they're covering, but there is overlap between 7th and 8th grade math. Kids taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade cover two years of content in Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (7th and 8th grade content), but again, there is overlap between those two years.

How many APS kids take Algebra 1 in 9th grade? I thought the vast majority take it in 8th, with a few taking it in 7th?

APS provides a class size report. The latest one was not as detailed as prior ones but shows the number of classes with 27 or more students at the HS. So, Wakefield had 7 Alg 1 classes that big, W-L had 2, Yorktown had 4. That would not include any Alg 1 classed with fewer than 27 students. So, sounds like plenty of students do take Alg 1 in HS, although a lot more at Wakefield and the fewest at W-L.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-22-Class-Size-Report.pdf

This is interesting, thanks.

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

No, "normal" is pre-algebra in 8th. Advanced is algebra in 8th. Algebra is a high school course. That's why they get high school credit for it if they pass it in middle school - whatever year they take it.
"Stretching out Math 6, 7,8 over three years" is called taking grade level math each year. There's nothing "remedial" about that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think HB tried out the block system and kids voted to go back to traditional.

Why do the HBW kids get to set their own schedule while all the other middle school kids have no say in the matter? That’s so ridiculous.

That's part of the HBW model and philosphy: the students have more input into their education and are supposed to take more individual responsibility in return.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

NP The base case in APS is Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Taking it in 7th or 8th grade is considered accelerated. For kids getting ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they take Pre-Algebra in 6th, which covers content from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade (standard 8th grade math, not Algebra). At the end of the course, they take the Math 8 SOL to see if they have sufficient mastery to go on Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It is technically three years of content they're covering, but there is overlap between 7th and 8th grade math. Kids taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade cover two years of content in Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (7th and 8th grade content), but again, there is overlap between those two years.

How many APS kids take Algebra 1 in 9th grade? I thought the vast majority take it in 8th, with a few taking it in 7th?

Before covid hit, roughly 40% of APS kids took Algebra 1 in 9th grade. With covid disruptions, that share is now higher. 7th grade Algebra 1 is not for all kids, but for those who really like math and have strong foundations, it can be a good challenge and it opens up opportunities to take more math later outside the standard path. For instance, taking Statistics senior year after taking Calculus in 11th.

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Anonymous wrote:I think HB tried out the block system and kids voted to go back to traditional.

WTAF?!!?! HB is the only APS school without block scheduling?????

They have 50-min. blocks but each class only meets 4x/week.

Exactly. The 90 minute classes are BS. Teachers don’t have the time energy to build those project based lessons that would use 90 minutes, so end up doing 45 minute typical period lecture, and then de facto study hall for remainder of block. Kids and teacher just don’t have stamina for multiple 90 minute classes.

HBW is running just like my neighbors private school, 50 minute periods but 4x week. What a weird coincidence.

My high school has 50ish minute blocks 4 days a week. It was great. Gave you a little more time with each class and also gave you one night off from homework for each class. It is frustrating HBW is able to keep to that and the other schools have to switch.

Public education is just nuts, so much chasing trends with little supporting data

I think Block scheduling let’s teacher work a little less (instead of 2 days of lectures, it’s 1 lecture and study hall), and maybe saves county money someway but that I’m less sure about.

From what my kids have said I don't think it's a "study hall" as kids get older. It can be used for group work, discussions, more active learning, etc. Probably easier to have continuity of thought with a longer "teach" portion. Not so chopped up over the week.

+1
Some classes, like math, may be better suited for every day; but as others have mentioned, others benefit from the long blocks. Science labs, music and arts; and I think class discussions in other subjects like English and even history would be better with more time to really delve into ideas and thoughts. Of course, kids actually reading a whole novel would facilitate better literary discussions, too....

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

But either way, hundreds of students have managed to complete this course successfully with block scheduling in the past. If your children is struggling excessively, maybe they should move down to Math 6.

My kids did fine in 6th grade pre algebra. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have learned more with a 45 min class every day

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids APS middle school does it and I hate it. It seems especially bad for the 6th grade pre algebra class. It's hard to learn three years of math in one year when your class only meets 2-3 times a week.

Why would the sixth grade prealgebra class need to teach three years of math?

Yeah I don't understand this either.

It used to be called Math 6-7-8.

It's one year of pre-algrebra. They are not trying to cram three years of material into one year.

How is it not three years of math in one? These kids were all in fifth grade math the year before, at the end of the year they take the 8th grade SOL. That means they have to cover material from.6, 7 and 8th.

DP. You have some bad information. They do not take the 8th grade SOL at the end of 6th grade.

I was told the pre-algebra kids do.

You got bad information. Most APS 8th graders take algebra or geometry in 8th grade. Only those who are effectively on a remedial math track take pre-algebra in 8th grade.

Yes, exactly. Pre-algebra is only one year. If you stretched out Math 6, 7, 8 over three years, it would be remedial and very slow. That's why it's not the same as saying "three years worth of math in one year." Normal course is algebra in 8th.

NP The base case in APS is Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Taking it in 7th or 8th grade is considered accelerated. For kids getting ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they take Pre-Algebra in 6th, which covers content from 6th, 7th, and 8th grade (standard 8th grade math, not Algebra). At the end of the course, they take the Math 8 SOL to see if they have sufficient mastery to go on Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It is technically three years of content they're covering, but there is overlap between 7th and 8th grade math. Kids taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade cover two years of content in Pre-Algebra in 7th grade (7th and 8th grade content), but again, there is overlap between those two years.

How many APS kids take Algebra 1 in 9th grade? I thought the vast majority take it in 8th, with a few taking it in 7th?

APS provides a class size report. The latest one was not as detailed as prior ones but shows the number of classes with 27 or more students at the HS. So, Wakefield had 7 Alg 1 classes that big, W-L had 2, Yorktown had 4. That would not include any Alg 1 classed with fewer than 27 students. So, sounds like plenty of students do take Alg 1 in HS, although a lot more at Wakefield and the fewest at W-L.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-22-Class-Size-Report.pdf

Anonymous wrote:I’m a HS teacher and have never taught anything but block. We don’t lecture the entire 88 minutes. In my class it looks like this: warm up activity/attendance question, independent reading, maybe a journal prompt, mini lesson and group practice, independent practice. Or, warm up/read/journal prompt, “workshop” time where some kids are drafting, some are revising, some are in a small group with me while I reteach something.

Thank you for posting (and for teaching). Very helpful. One question. My high school English class (45 minutes, each day) involved the teacher giving a mini-lesson and then leading a discussion of the themes/literary techniques for stories/books we read for homework for the rest of class. Sometimes, kids would keep a journal as they did their assigned reading at night, to document their thoughts to be better able to discuss in class. If a paper was due, the teacher might focus her mini-lesson on writing techniques, using anonymized prior student writing samples to show what worked and what didn't. Overall though, the focus in class was on analyzing the assigned reading we had done at home. I am sure you have rich class discussions as well but do you feel that the time spent in independent reading and work takes away time that could be spent in guided class analysis and discussion? Independent reading is surely important, but is there an advantage to doing it at school versus at home? Is the fear that not all kids read at home so this is a way to ensure that they do?