Anonymous wrote:My kid got a ton of aid at Princeton, but if I were richer and got less aid then I could spend it on making up the difference. It’s worth it. Who cares if you have to tap into some home equity; it will all work out. Just cancel some vacations or club memberships. Drive a beater car.

I don't know what kind of car you drive or vacations you take but I am certainly not spending $80k a year on cars, vacations, and club memberships so there is nothing I can cancel that will free up a Princeton tuition level of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

You have to manage her expectations. Having perfect grades, perfect test scores, and some awesome hook is only the price of buying a lottery ticket to the highly rejective schools. And the lottery ticket does not give you an equal chance to win one of X number of seats for the entering freshman class. The stats are out there if you look for them -- schools like Princeton and Yale have many, many of their available seats go to full-pay kids (especially early decision children of alumni as well as international students who get no aid) as well as those who are recruited for sports, etc. And I do not disagree with affirmative action at all, but it's also just the simple truth that these elite colleges are making up for decades and decades of discrimination and exclusion by recruiting first-gen college kids.

The costs of applying to schools where average high-achieving kids are: 1) it takes time to write all those essays, time which should be better spent on essays for schools at which your kid has a reasonable shot; 2) it takes money to pay for all the application fees, which adds up; and 3) there's a psychological cost of getting hopes up that are sure to be dashed, whether a) your kid gets rejected or b) by some miracle they are accepted to a highly rejective school and you simply can't afford it. There's also a psychological cost to reinforcing the message that the only way to success in life is to get the golden ring of an Ivy or comparable degree (MIT, Stanford etc.).

You are the parent and you really have to have the come to Jesus conversation with your kid, so that you help set them up for success not only in developing the right list of schools to apply to but also in managing expectations and understanding about the true costs of college and the fact that it's simply not necessary to get the golden ring to have a happy and successful life.

Understanding which colleges offer merit (not financial) aid is key to developing the right list. I recommend Jeff Selingo's book and website about which colleges are buyers and sellers:

https://jeffselingo.com/which-colleges-are-really-buyers-and-which-are-sellers/

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid is going to be crushed either way, but if you let her apply but tell her that she needs to apply to a lot of other schools because you can't afford Princeton unless the financial aid gods smile on your (or unless she finds some separate scholarships), then you are only the bad guy if she actually gets into Princeton, which is unlikely. So I would let her apply.

You're going to be more of a bad guy if she gets into Princeton and then you have to say "so sorry can't afford it and I refuse to take on crushing debt from a Parent Plus Loan".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my kid got into Princeton I would make it happen even if I had to borrow. But I would insist they help through ROTC or something.

I would sell my house and move someplace smaller and cheaper (esp if this was my youngest kid) but YMMV. If OP has been living in upper nourthwest for a while, he or she should have a lot of home equity.

Yeah and your HHI would drop dramatically if you did that so you'd be even better off from the standpoint of need-based aid.

Anonymous wrote:The worship of the Ivy League on this site is completely NUTS.

Sell your house for your kid to attend Princeton???

It's not the golden ticket to happiness and prosperity. It simply isn't. The poor kids who have to live up to this incredibly warped view of life that so many adults around here have.

I'm going to go bang my head on a wall.

Eh a nice house also isn't the ticket to happiness. Once my kids are in college having a longer commute or a smaller house is less of a big deal.

The worship of the Ivy League on this site is completely NUTS.

Sell your house for your kid to attend Princeton???

It's not the golden ticket to happiness and prosperity. It simply isn't. The poor kids who have to live up to this incredibly warped view of life that so many adults around here have.

I'm going to go bang my head on a wall.

Anonymous wrote:If my kid got into Princeton I would make it happen even if I had to borrow. But I would insist they help through ROTC or something.

I would sell my house and move someplace smaller and cheaper (esp if this was my youngest kid) but YMMV. If OP has been living in upper nourthwest for a while, he or she should have a lot of home equity.

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid is going to be crushed either way, but if you let her apply but tell her that she needs to apply to a lot of other schools because you can't afford Princeton unless the financial aid gods smile on your (or unless she finds some separate scholarships), then you are only the bad guy if she actually gets into Princeton, which is unlikely. So I would let her apply.

No no no. If the NPC says Princeton is unaffordable, it is a bad idea to apply.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about crossing that bridge when you get there?

Because then it becomes that much harder to say NO and there will be more disappointment and tears. If there really is a halfway decent chance for enough aid, that's one thing. But if the NPC and/or other data shows it is not realistic, better to head it off at the pass.

I disagree. Chances are she won’t get in to Princeton. Or Pomona. But if you don’t let her apply, she will resent that forever. Just tell her you are sorry but you are not sure you can afford it, but she can apply and see what hapoens

100% agree. It is almost certain she won’t get in. The kids don’t understand this and that’s fine. Let her apply. If she randomly gets it, worry about it then. All other schools should be options that work financially so she has Choices!

If my kid got into Princeton I would make it happen even if I had to borrow. But I would insist they help through ROTC or something.

OP your kid is going to be crushed either way, but if you let her apply but tell her that she needs to apply to a lot of other schools because you can't afford Princeton unless the financial aid gods smile on your (or unless she finds some separate scholarships), then you are only the bad guy if she actually gets into Princeton, which is unlikely. So I would let her apply.

My parents didn't let me apply to Stanford because we lived in New England they didn't want to deal with the extra costs and hassle of a school in CA. I still wonder if I could have gotten in (which is likely doubtful) and what my life would have been like if I had gone even though I went to another Ivy and loved it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

If you have a HHI of $250K and can give your kid $30K/year then there's no way your kid can attend Princeton or Pomona.
I don't think your kid can even borrow $50K/year. I'm not there (oldest kid is a junior) but there is ZERO way this kid should apply to schools that she is $50K/year out-of-range for.

I'm sorry OP. My kids are going to be in the exact same situation. We live in DC and have a decent income (mid 200's) but don't have $80K/year saved for college.
There are schools just below the top schools that offer merit aid. Again, I don't know off the top of my head but lots of DC kids attend them. You (and I) are not alone.

Anonymous wrote:Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.

OP here. Thank you for posting. And yes, you are right. My stats match those you mentioned above. So then what do you do? Where does your child apply? The push for public is strong because of DC TAG and no need based financial aid, but she wants to see if she can get into harder schools knowing we can only give her about $30K/yr. Why not attend a fantastic public school who pays a strong student like you to attend is my thinking? Why be in a sea of high achievers at a place like Princeton only take out loans that force you into debt?

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I would not apply to schools that you can't afford and can't believe posters are supporting or suggesting this.

It's much easier to be realistic up front and talk up other options than to have a dream acceptance in hand and then have to tell your kid you can't swing it.
Get her excited about her choices!!

And those who are suggestions she pay back parents from lucrative future earnings are just asking for trouble. What if she gets disabled? Switches majors? Goes to an interminable PhD program?
Takes a job that doesn't pay the money you think she should be making? Decides to take a year off and travel? Decides that X, Y or Z is more important to spend money on than paying back mom and dad?
All kinds of things could and do happen in family loan arrangements like this.

My husband's parents put him on a payment plan for money he borrowed from them for medical school. For many reasons, this was an albatross in the relationship until that money was paid off.
It's much better to not intermix loans and family, even parents.

She can manage her own college application process and her own emotions. I’m very surprised at the people who want to insulate their kids from making hard choices.

Correct. It's insane to tell your kid to apply when there is no realistic way that the parents can pay for it.

I'd be that OP probably has a HHI of $250K. Clearly a good HHI but not one that generally allows a DC resident (with the associated cost-of-living) to pay for $85K/year for college for two kids back-to-back.
However, it's way too much to qualify for financial aid at any school (Princeton, Harvard included).
There is zero way these schools are going to magically come up with aid.

I'm in this income bracket as are most of many of my friends in DC. We don't send our kids to Amherst or Northwestern or Harvard because we can't afford them.
There is a whole slew of kids at Walls and Wilson (Jackson Reed) who go to lower ranked schools because their parents don't have the $80K+/year for these school but because they're in the $200K+ income
range they do not qualify for aid. The kids who do attend are either 1)wealthier 2) poorer. Plenty of both in DCPS.