Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Neurotypical” really refers to autism. People with ADHD typically don’t have the same issues with interpersonal relationships and friendships, and don’t have the very different type of information processing and way of seeing the world as kids with autism. I don’t think it’s correct to lump them together.

Now somebody will say “it’s all on a spectrum!”. OK fine but then none of this has any meaning.

Research scientist here. You are wrong, as you suspected. These terms do not simply refer to one psychiatric diagnosis, they refer to all mental health disorders. "Neurotypical" simply means what's typical behavior in the range of normal. "Neurodivergent" means what is not typical, and it infers there might be a particular diagnosis.

It's very important everyone understands that most mental health issues exist on a spectrum, ie, a range of severity. The DSMs set out a threshold of clinical diagnosis just because we need cut-offs and thresholds to practice medicine! Not because the issue magically disappears below the threshold. Families with a few diagnosed people and a bunch of non-diagnosed ones often notice that they share some of the same behaviors, but when that behavior is exaggerated, it leads to a diagnosis. There is a strong hereditary link to many mental health disorders, but since they exist on a spectrum, some relatives are hardly affected at all, while others are impacted in their daily lives.

I find your habit of showing up all over the special needs forum flashing your pseudo creds offensive. If you were truly a professional, you would know not to do this and many online parenting forums don't allow it. It seems you think it gives your opinions, which have been off the wall at times, more weight. You don't know more than the other parents here. Join in the conversation all you want but drop the research scientist crap. You're just another parent with an opinion like the rest of us. Occasionally an st, ot whatever will drop by and mention what they do but it's usually very specific advice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a kid I was diagnosed with LDs. I required specialized services throughout school to help me learn. I graduated in the top 10% of my class from high school and went on to earn a PhD. That doesn’t means that I didn’t require special services to meet my needs. I used those special services to be able to attain success in school. My Mom spent a lot of time fighting for those services and providing additional supports so that I could succeed.

I was very much a special needs kid.

As an adult I was diagnosed with ADHD. It only reinforced to me how differently I see process information and respond to stimulation around me. I now understand why I get agitated in high stimulation environments and why I struggle with some regular scenarios, like in conversations where I find it hard not to interrupt and why I blurt out information. I am lucky to work in an environment where those issues have no caused me any problems and where I can make a very nice salary but I am pretty well aware that there are many environments where I would struggle. My work place has lots of open seating but they have always found a desk for me in a smaller room. They are fine with my using headphones when most people are discouraged from doing so. They have been accommodating of my quirks.

I am very much an adult with special needs.

Are my needs so great that I would be unable to function without accommodations? Probably not. Would I be in a very different place if I had not received the support I did in school or the accommodations I receive at work? Hell yeah. 100% I would have had a very different life.

There is nothing wrong with being different and knowing that you need some accommodations.

There is so much unacknowledged privilege in this comment I don't even know where to start.

This is why it is sometimes annoying when people with mild ADHD say they are special needs.

NP. I don’t understand this comment. Can you explain more?

Because the primary differences between the PP and the average student or worker are:

1) A parent with the time, resources, and knowledge (and interest) I strongly advocating for her child to receive extra resources and accommodations so that her child could not merely get by in school, but excel above most others.m; and

2) Access to doctors/therapists who are able to provide official diagnoses that enables advocating for special accommodations like an office in an open plan office, for example.

A person who can excel at that level does not have special needs. They have ordinary needs but, with with extra accommodation and support, can really thrive. That’s true if most people, but most people don’t get it. PP is not uniquely hindered in life. By their own acknowledgement, they can function fine without accommodation. Only very well resourced people can conceptualize special needs in this way. 99% of the population would view someone like this as typical.

No, the primary difference between PP and the "average student or worker" are that she has learning disabilities and ADHD.

It seems like your issue is that PP got access to resources and help that others did not. I agree that is a big problem. But that doesn't mean that she didn't deserve those resources, it just means that many others don't get the resources they deserve. This is true with all instances of unearned privilege. The privileges themselves aren't the problem. The fact that others are denied them is what needs to be changed. I assume you would take no issue with PP's comment were the system to better serve those with greater impairments.

It is absolutely untrue that somebody who can excel doesn't have special needs, regardless of how 99% of the population sees them. This is the big issue with being twice exceptional. Somebody can look like they are doing okay because their intelligence seems to counteract their impairments. But without accommodations typically 2e kids (and adults) are a ball of anxiety and shame about "not reaching their potential." It isn't just about the grades or the career, it's about overall wellbeing. The idea that we should only apportion resources to help people function, not thrive, seems to dismiss the potential severe mental health consequences of being denied accommodations for ADHD or learning disabilities (although I wouldn't even say we are trying to get people to thrive, I'd say we are trying to help them lead a life that isn't substantially more difficult than the lives of neurotypical people).

I mean, I’m a big ball of shame and anxiety about not meeting my potential at work. Am I special needs?

At a certain point, this IS objective. A disability has to be defined as something that truly burdens the ability to conduct life activities. People who get PhDs, hold down jobs, have families…. are not disabled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Neurotypical” really refers to autism. People with ADHD typically don’t have the same issues with interpersonal relationships and friendships, and don’t have the very different type of information processing and way of seeing the world as kids with autism. I don’t think it’s correct to lump them together.

Now somebody will say “it’s all on a spectrum!”. OK fine but then none of this has any meaning.

Many of the kids with "just" ADHD in my child's school have more issues with interpersonal relationships and friendships than the one child who I know has an ASD diagnosis.
The diagnoses are not as rigid as you think.

Anonymous wrote:I’d have to meet your daughter before making that decision. ADHD has become so over diagnosed that most kids don’t have ADHD they just have no discipline and are allowed to be on electronics 10 hours a day and miss out on valuable hands on learning opportunities and social skills.

Anonymous wrote:Your acceptance of the fact that I can easily see how my approach to work, now, and school in the past is very different then my peers is not important to me. Yes, I have been successful and yes I am able to function well in the work place that I have found but it isn’t easy and there are plenty of places I would not fit in well. For example, I figured out quickly that I could not thrive in Academia because of my struggles to stay focused on one or two projects. It is the reason my degree took 8 years instead of the 4 that most of my peers finished in. There are a large number of work environments I would sink in.

There is a world of difference between different issues, which I understand. I also know that if my Mom hadn’t fought for me in early ES I would not have graduated with a standard diploma. The HS wanted to drop all math and science requirements for me and had already determined I wouldn’t go to college.

I never out grew the needed for academic accommodations, without them I would not have succeeded. I did learn how to compensate in many areas and I did very well in school once that happened. That said, my performance in Grad School was solid and strong enough to earn my PhD but it was still different then my peers. You are crazy if you don’t think there were comments and barbs thrown my way for that.

And my private office is an office with 8 other people instead of the open floor with 100 people. Yes, my work values me because of my degree and because of the work I produce. My team ends up with a lot of the people who struggle with the regular work environment because they know that I can help someone navigate our work area and have success.

Are my LDs a part of how I see myself? Yup. I had Teachers spend a good amount of time commenting that I wasn’t as smart as my brothers or remarking how amazing it was that I got an A or a B on a test. There were conferences to discuss whether I could take honors classes and a debate about taking an AP exam. People were very comfortable with telling me that I was over achieving and that I shouldn’t expect it to last. The Resource Teacher was shocked that I was attending a 4 year college and tried to talk me into taking it slow and going to Community College. Maybe if the people who were teaching me had ever had any confidence in my abilities I would have developed confidence in myself.

I get that there are people with far greater challenges then I had. I get that there are people who had the same challenges I did with less support. That does not change the path I took or the issues that existed along the way. Nor does it change that I struggle with how I interact with folks on a day to day basis.

The question wasn’t whether a kid with ADHD was severely Special Needs but if they had Special Needs. The answer is yes. Those needs might be less then kids with Autism or PANDAs or any number of health issues but they are real. If they are not addressed, they change the course of a persons life. The needs might be different but marginalizing those with ADHD or LDs because their issues seem less extreme is kind of bogus.

Anonymous wrote:I’d have to meet your daughter before making that decision. ADHD has become so over diagnosed that most kids don’t have ADHD they just have no discipline and are allowed to be on electronics 10 hours a day and miss out on valuable hands on learning opportunities and social skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Neurotypical” really refers to autism. People with ADHD typically don’t have the same issues with interpersonal relationships and friendships, and don’t have the very different type of information processing and way of seeing the world as kids with autism. I don’t think it’s correct to lump them together.

Now somebody will say “it’s all on a spectrum!”. OK fine but then none of this has any meaning.

Research scientist here. You are wrong, as you suspected. These terms do not simply refer to one psychiatric diagnosis, they refer to all mental health disorders. "Neurotypical" simply means what's typical behavior in the range of normal. "Neurodivergent" means what is not typical, and it infers there might be a particular diagnosis.

It's very important everyone understands that most mental health issues exist on a spectrum, ie, a range of severity. The DSMs set out a threshold of clinical diagnosis just because we need cut-offs and thresholds to practice medicine! Not because the issue magically disappears below the threshold. Families with a few diagnosed people and a bunch of non-diagnosed ones often notice that they share some of the same behaviors, but when that behavior is exaggerated, it leads to a diagnosis. There is a strong hereditary link to many mental health disorders, but since they exist on a spectrum, some relatives are hardly affected at all, while others are impacted in their daily lives.