Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I think that you are raising an excellent point. The paths to teaching seem to vary wildly. Our private school doesn't really highlight staff credentials so I have no idea what is typical, but I certainly have observed big variances amongst my children over the years in taking the same subjects with different teachers. I agree with some PPs that parents can be a nightmare (entitled and neurotic) and are a big part of the exodus problem, but I do think that you are illustrating a nuance of the model that stymies and erodes parent trust and confidence in private school teachers and schools.

From a parent's perspective, a child's experience is so teacher-dependent. Communication home and with the student is variable. Teacher training and philosophies are variable. Curriculum is variable. Grading is variable.

Therefore, quality (or at least, perceived quality) is variable.

This isn't the case in most professional service environments. Typically a customer has some influence in choosing an accountant or a lawyer based on skills and reputation. And parents are paying big $$$ to a school with the brand premise that its teachers are highly skilled overall. Many, many are. But there are also quite a few inexperienced ones (or much worse, apathetic duds) too.

And current trends suggest that a higher percentage of the duds are going to be teaching as the stars exit the field.

There doesn't seem to be a particularly robust system to reward excellence in teaching financially, and likely accolades are tied to admin noticing or prioritizing funding for salary bumps. That is a real problem with the business model. If the duds are getting paid as much as the stars, that is an issue. If stars aren't noticed and financially rewarded, that is an issue. Pay being low overall is a known issue. If admin is weak and mainly focused on flash and short-term accomplishments (buildings, sports, etc) for fundraising and admissions vs academic excellence, that is an issue.

Parents will be willing to endure paying for duds only to a point. There is certainly value to small class sizes, but IMO the schools that will be the most successful in the long run are those that attract the stars and keep them happy.

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Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I have certifications (state and national), Masters Degree and over 30 years of experience. The certifications are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

Until you engage with educators with none. Yes, teachers do need education, training, and experience.

Maybe you just aren't in the right field. If these goal posts are meaningless, why did you spend all that time obtaining them? It's a lot of work and money and time.

I think you missed PP’s point. They are saying that the certifications are pretty meaningless. They aren’t discounting the training and education they received while completing master’s degrees and their teaching experience. There are those on this board who seem to think that unless a teacher is certified, they aren’t qualified. I’ll take a teachers with a masters and experience any day over a teacher with a state certification and little to no experience. Not to say that the latter won’t become a great teacher but the point is that a state certification is not the great qualifier that some thing it is. Education and experience are the more important factors.

Certifications aren’t just pieces of paper. There's a lot of work involved.

They aren’t just pieces of paper but they also aren’t the only way a person can show they are qualified to teach. Why would a private school teacher with a masters in computer science and a bachelors in education decide that they need to go and certify as a teacher before accepting a position with a school that doesn’t require or hire based on certifications? What’s the point?
Public school educators get certifications because the school system itself has made them necessary and valued. The education behind them is always of value but whether someone has sat for the certification and can check that box isn’t a concrete measure of qualification.
I would rather have someone who has a degree in the field they are teaching, a basis in teaching and a willing, non-jaded attitude than a new teacher with no experience and a certification who has been glued to Bored Teachers all summer long.

We will answer that question after these veterans and their spouses all start teaching in public classroom. This will be very, very eye opening and shocking. Most people have no idea what teaching in a classroom means, and especially those who come from a system of rules and obedience. This will be a S#i+ s#0w. They won't last until the first grading period, if even a week. Oh, and, yes, a teacher needs to understand the complexity of neurological and developmental learning. They need to understand how to teach how to think, how to read, how to question, how to think. Yes, that takes a great deal of preparation and experience. Certifications aren't just handed out.

Eh. I have my MSDE certification. I didn’t major in Education, so I completed an alternative path. It wasn’t hard and I finished in a couple of months.

My certification isn’t what makes me a good teacher. I’ve taught with dreadful teachers who are certified and amazing teachers who aren’t. (I’m now working in a private school.) I agree with everything you wrote above about what makes a good teacher. I’d just argue that has very little to do with certification.

Sure there are bad teachers in both camps. But it is a field. I know vet techs who know more than some veterinarians. There is a body of study that requires a path of study and best practices.

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Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I have certifications (state and national), Masters Degree and over 30 years of experience. The certifications are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

Until you engage with educators with none. Yes, teachers do need education, training, and experience.

Maybe you just aren't in the right field. If these goal posts are meaningless, why did you spend all that time obtaining them? It's a lot of work and money and time.

I think you missed PP’s point. They are saying that the certifications are pretty meaningless. They aren’t discounting the training and education they received while completing master’s degrees and their teaching experience. There are those on this board who seem to think that unless a teacher is certified, they aren’t qualified. I’ll take a teachers with a masters and experience any day over a teacher with a state certification and little to no experience. Not to say that the latter won’t become a great teacher but the point is that a state certification is not the great qualifier that some thing it is. Education and experience are the more important factors.

Certifications aren’t just pieces of paper. There's a lot of work involved.

They aren’t just pieces of paper but they also aren’t the only way a person can show they are qualified to teach. Why would a private school teacher with a masters in computer science and a bachelors in education decide that they need to go and certify as a teacher before accepting a position with a school that doesn’t require or hire based on certifications? What’s the point?
Public school educators get certifications because the school system itself has made them necessary and valued. The education behind them is always of value but whether someone has sat for the certification and can check that box isn’t a concrete measure of qualification.
I would rather have someone who has a degree in the field they are teaching, a basis in teaching and a willing, non-jaded attitude than a new teacher with no experience and a certification who has been glued to Bored Teachers all summer long.

We will answer that question after these veterans and their spouses all start teaching in public classroom. This will be very, very eye opening and shocking. Most people have no idea what teaching in a classroom means, and especially those who come from a system of rules and obedience. This will be a S#i+ s#0w. They won't last until the first grading period, if even a week. Oh, and, yes, a teacher needs to understand the complexity of neurological and developmental learning. They need to understand how to teach how to think, how to read, how to question, how to think. Yes, that takes a great deal of preparation and experience. Certifications aren't just handed out.

Eh. I have my MSDE certification. I didn’t major in Education, so I completed an alternative path. It wasn’t hard and I finished in a couple of months.

My certification isn’t what makes me a good teacher. I’ve taught with dreadful teachers who are certified and amazing teachers who aren’t. (I’m now working in a private school.) I agree with everything you wrote above about what makes a good teacher. I’d just argue that has very little to do with certification.

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Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I have certifications (state and national), Masters Degree and over 30 years of experience. The certifications are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

Until you engage with educators with none. Yes, teachers do need education, training, and experience.

Maybe you just aren't in the right field. If these goal posts are meaningless, why did you spend all that time obtaining them? It's a lot of work and money and time.

I think you missed PP’s point. They are saying that the certifications are pretty meaningless. They aren’t discounting the training and education they received while completing master’s degrees and their teaching experience. There are those on this board who seem to think that unless a teacher is certified, they aren’t qualified. I’ll take a teachers with a masters and experience any day over a teacher with a state certification and little to no experience. Not to say that the latter won’t become a great teacher but the point is that a state certification is not the great qualifier that some thing it is. Education and experience are the more important factors.

Certifications aren’t just pieces of paper. There's a lot of work involved.

They aren’t just pieces of paper but they also aren’t the only way a person can show they are qualified to teach. Why would a private school teacher with a masters in computer science and a bachelors in education decide that they need to go and certify as a teacher before accepting a position with a school that doesn’t require or hire based on certifications? What’s the point?
Public school educators get certifications because the school system itself has made them necessary and valued. The education behind them is always of value but whether someone has sat for the certification and can check that box isn’t a concrete measure of qualification.
I would rather have someone who has a degree in the field they are teaching, a basis in teaching and a willing, non-jaded attitude than a new teacher with no experience and a certification who has been glued to Bored Teachers all summer long.

We will answer that question after these veterans and their spouses all start teaching in public classroom. This will be very, very eye opening and shocking. Most people have no idea what teaching in a classroom means, and especially those who come from a system of rules and obedience. This will be a S#i+ s#0w. They won't last until the first grading period, if even a week. Oh, and, yes, a teacher needs to understand the complexity of neurological and developmental learning. They need to understand how to teach how to think, how to read, how to question, how to think. Yes, that takes a great deal of preparation and experience. Certifications aren't just handed out.

Certified teacher here. I don't think that certification is meaningless. I also think you're kidding yourself if you think it's a "great deal of preparation and experience" to get certified. It's 20-30 credits of education coursework, some classroom observation, and a semester of student teaching. It's not as much training as you think.

Unfortunately on DCUM it's impossible to have a nuanced conversation, but it's ridiculous to paint private school teachers with a broad brush to say that they are automatically unqualified because they don't have a certification.

The situation in Florida where they are letting any veteran or spouse waltz into a teaching job is a different situation altogether and nobody thinks that's a good idea.

Nah, that's starting out. To continue, it's a graduate degree and depending on type of certification, quite a bit of work.

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Anonymous wrote:Significantly increase the salary. Currently not enough money for all the bs they go through.

This. Private schools are going to have a tougher time recruiting teachers due to lack of competitive salaries. These teachers can make way more in public, or if they are totally over/burnt out of teaching, find a new career path. Amazon has openings for numerous positions that pay more than teacher salaries even in public with better benefits.

I teach at a K-8 (nonreligious) and almost all of our vacancies this year were filled by teachers coming from public.

Interesting. I just left a K-8 for public along with our librarian, an art teacher and many others. The best teacher my child had at our K-8 came from public, taught in private for one year and then ran back to public.

I'd wager these are second extra incomes, and health insurance is managed by the spouse.

A teacher I know in a toney private in northern Balt indicates her income, after teaching there 20 years , covers the only health insurance the school offers with a scant extra. She needs it as she is the primary income. So she's working only for health insurance.

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Anonymous wrote:Significantly increase the salary. Currently not enough money for all the bs they go through.

This. Private schools are going to have a tougher time recruiting teachers due to lack of competitive salaries. These teachers can make way more in public, or if they are totally over/burnt out of teaching, find a new career path. Amazon has openings for numerous positions that pay more than teacher salaries even in public with better benefits.

I teach at a K-8 (nonreligious) and almost all of our vacancies this year were filled by teachers coming from public.

Interesting. I just left a K-8 for public along with our librarian, an art teacher and many others. The best teacher my child had at our K-8 came from public, taught in private for one year and then ran back to public.

I'd wager these are second extra incomes, and health insurance is managed by the spouse.

Anonymous wrote:Most of the private school teachers I have known here come from family money or have a spouse with money, or they switch to public.

A lot of private school teachers are also career teachers since there are less qualifications required than public. They do it when they want the tuition discount for their kid or when they retire from their first career.

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Anonymous wrote:Significantly increase the salary. Currently not enough money for all the bs they go through.

This. Private schools are going to have a tougher time recruiting teachers due to lack of competitive salaries. These teachers can make way more in public, or if they are totally over/burnt out of teaching, find a new career path. Amazon has openings for numerous positions that pay more than teacher salaries even in public with better benefits.

I teach at a K-8 (nonreligious) and almost all of our vacancies this year were filled by teachers coming from public.

Interesting. I just left a K-8 for public along with our librarian, an art teacher and many others. The best teacher my child had at our K-8 came from public, taught in private for one year and then ran back to public.

Anonymous wrote:I ask again for specifics regarding private and public school teacher salaries. I know a few couples with both working as high school teachers and love their jobs and do not complain about pay, but none live in high cost areas such as NYC, DC, San Francisco, etc.

I was paid $70k at a local K-8 when I could have been making $100k in MCPS. My health insurance through my private school was $1,100/month for my family versus $300/month through MCPS.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard anecdotal salaries at some DC Catholic elementary schools are @$30k. Insane.

Yep. I’ve heard more around 40-45k (with proper credentials) but could be a different school. Either way, not enough!

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Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I have certifications (state and national), Masters Degree and over 30 years of experience. The certifications are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

Until you engage with educators with none. Yes, teachers do need education, training, and experience.

Maybe you just aren't in the right field. If these goal posts are meaningless, why did you spend all that time obtaining them? It's a lot of work and money and time.

I think you missed PP’s point. They are saying that the certifications are pretty meaningless. They aren’t discounting the training and education they received while completing master’s degrees and their teaching experience. There are those on this board who seem to think that unless a teacher is certified, they aren’t qualified. I’ll take a teachers with a masters and experience any day over a teacher with a state certification and little to no experience. Not to say that the latter won’t become a great teacher but the point is that a state certification is not the great qualifier that some thing it is. Education and experience are the more important factors.

Certifications aren’t just pieces of paper. There's a lot of work involved.

They aren’t just pieces of paper but they also aren’t the only way a person can show they are qualified to teach. Why would a private school teacher with a masters in computer science and a bachelors in education decide that they need to go and certify as a teacher before accepting a position with a school that doesn’t require or hire based on certifications? What’s the point?
Public school educators get certifications because the school system itself has made them necessary and valued. The education behind them is always of value but whether someone has sat for the certification and can check that box isn’t a concrete measure of qualification.
I would rather have someone who has a degree in the field they are teaching, a basis in teaching and a willing, non-jaded attitude than a new teacher with no experience and a certification who has been glued to Bored Teachers all summer long.

We will answer that question after these veterans and their spouses all start teaching in public classroom. This will be very, very eye opening and shocking. Most people have no idea what teaching in a classroom means, and especially those who come from a system of rules and obedience. This will be a S#i+ s#0w. They won't last until the first grading period, if even a week. Oh, and, yes, a teacher needs to understand the complexity of neurological and developmental learning. They need to understand how to teach how to think, how to read, how to question, how to think. Yes, that takes a great deal of preparation and experience. Certifications aren't just handed out.

Certified teacher here. I don't think that certification is meaningless. I also think you're kidding yourself if you think it's a "great deal of preparation and experience" to get certified. It's 20-30 credits of education coursework, some classroom observation, and a semester of student teaching. It's not as much training as you think.

Unfortunately on DCUM it's impossible to have a nuanced conversation, but it's ridiculous to paint private school teachers with a broad brush to say that they are automatically unqualified because they don't have a certification.

The situation in Florida where they are letting any veteran or spouse waltz into a teaching job is a different situation altogether and nobody thinks that's a good idea.

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Anonymous wrote:A qualified teacher at a school in an expensive area should be making 200k a year.

I wish good teachers can get that, but where the money comes from? More tax for public schools? More tuition for private schools?

Maybe HOSes start getting paid the same as public district superintendents and not $500k+ as a start.

Some HOS’s compensation is truly obscene. 600k+ and free housing when they have teachers making 1/10th of that in an expensive rent/cost of living area. Cutting some from their salaries would be a good place to start

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Anonymous wrote:I was an administrator and teacher at a private school for a period of time. I have multiple state certifications, 2 graduate degrees, and at the time, approximately 20 years of experience. The majority of teachers employed there had no background in teaching and were not certified. There was a staff of around 30-35 teachers, and I would say only about 10 or 12 were talented teachers quite on their own, but still flying by the seat of their pants. There was no real sense of curriculum understanding, learning theory, or best practices. It was posh daycare with some books. I left for public school. I don't understand why people pay to send their kids to private schools. I think there are some private schools with bone fide standards, certified teachers and staff (largely underpaid,however) and oversight, but people would be very surprised at how many are not, particularly the religious schools. Some well regarded schools that are private are really just a business model.
In the end, this is a whole career that requires an overhaul, public and private. Time to do it. An entire paradigm shift.

I have certifications (state and national), Masters Degree and over 30 years of experience. The certifications are pretty meaningless in my opinion.

Until you engage with educators with none. Yes, teachers do need education, training, and experience.

Maybe you just aren't in the right field. If these goal posts are meaningless, why did you spend all that time obtaining them? It's a lot of work and money and time.

I think you missed PP’s point. They are saying that the certifications are pretty meaningless. They aren’t discounting the training and education they received while completing master’s degrees and their teaching experience. There are those on this board who seem to think that unless a teacher is certified, they aren’t qualified. I’ll take a teachers with a masters and experience any day over a teacher with a state certification and little to no experience. Not to say that the latter won’t become a great teacher but the point is that a state certification is not the great qualifier that some thing it is. Education and experience are the more important factors.

Certifications aren’t just pieces of paper. There's a lot of work involved.

They aren’t just pieces of paper but they also aren’t the only way a person can show they are qualified to teach. Why would a private school teacher with a masters in computer science and a bachelors in education decide that they need to go and certify as a teacher before accepting a position with a school that doesn’t require or hire based on certifications? What’s the point?
Public school educators get certifications because the school system itself has made them necessary and valued. The education behind them is always of value but whether someone has sat for the certification and can check that box isn’t a concrete measure of qualification.
I would rather have someone who has a degree in the field they are teaching, a basis in teaching and a willing, non-jaded attitude than a new teacher with no experience and a certification who has been glued to Bored Teachers all summer long.

We will answer that question after these veterans and their spouses all start teaching in public classroom. This will be very, very eye opening and shocking. Most people have no idea what teaching in a classroom means, and especially those who come from a system of rules and obedience. This will be a S#i+ s#0w. They won't last until the first grading period, if even a week. Oh, and, yes, a teacher needs to understand the complexity of neurological and developmental learning. They need to understand how to teach how to think, how to read, how to question, how to think. Yes, that takes a great deal of preparation and experience. Certifications aren't just handed out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A qualified teacher at a school in an expensive area should be making 200k a year.

I wish good teachers can get that, but where the money comes from? More tax for public schools? More tuition for private schools?

Maybe HOSes start getting paid the same as public district superintendents and not $500k+ as a start.

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Anonymous wrote:Covid also disproportionately affected working women, and teachers are mostly women. The burden of a stressful demanding job during a crisis and the demands of their own families/children, who may have been virtual for extended periods, frequent closures, etc. It's just not worth it to stay in the workforce for meager pay and those increased demands.

Also, Private school teachers don't have unions to protect their interests.

Stop blaming covid. Most privates were open all last year and many the prior year. The issue is pay and the environment.

I agree. I'm just pointing out the added stressors. Private schools were open, but it was harder teach, especially in the 20-21 school year. And many teachers have children who did not attend school ok person.

That goes back to the salary. Staff kids should go for free or very reduced cost.

Thought they did?!

No. It is usually a very small reduction. My younger DD’s school tried to recruit me for years, but offered a 10% discount.

Many privates offer signficant discounts to teachers. At our school teachers with 2 kids at the school get the equivalent of 60k on top of their salary (tuition is post tax so bake that in). Pretty good perk!