Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

You will not tolerate abuse, but you will dish it out. Abusive and bullying. If you don't like my advice, which I gave in good faith, you could have ignored it. Instead you sought to hurt me, multiple times. You don't even recognize the person you are. You are in no position to offer advice on how to handle abuse, either, since you relish in it yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

People are frustrated with you because you are a hypocrite. It isn’t mean to point that out; it’s factual. You are perceiving it as mean because you don’t like being seen for what you are.

I’m one of the PPs who has responded to you (one of multiple). I’m in the trenches with a severely mentally ill relative, unlike you. Unlike you, we are in touch. We make sure the relative gets cared for, we interact with the relative, we are the main point of contact for when things go wrong (which they do, all the time). But we do not allow contact with our kids, and we keep our own contact as minimal as possible. When the abuse got to be too much, we slowly cut all contact for years (all the while making sure our relative kept a home and got healthcare). I will make sure a mentally ill family member is kept safe, but I will not tolerate abuse.

It is unclear to me why anyone should take your advice. You haven’t been in touch with your mentally ill sister in 15 years. How can you possibly have anything relevant to say about how to interact with a mentally ill family member? You don’t actually do it. You talk a big game, but you don’t do it yourself. And that makes you a hypocrite.

When you have been actually caring for your sister like the rest of this on this thread who actually interact with their severely mentally ill family members, and are actually doing something other than telling people to do what you don’t do yourself, maybe people will listen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the estranged sister. I was coming from a place of experience and hoping for a better outcome for the OP.

Is there only one bully on this thread or many? It's hard to imagine someone being that caustic to a stranger on a thread about a mentally ill relative who is actually mentally healthy. Something wrong there. Why would anyone take their advice? It didn't turn out well for them. They're twisted and unhappy people. The goal is to be better, not worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

DP here, but I would do something similar if my mom had a pool. My mom is mentally ill. I spent my whole life waiting for her to change. Hoping she would change. Daydreaming about what life would be like if she would change. And then, the same thing happens again and again and again because people don't change. But I love her! I want her to change! So you do things with rose colored glasses on, like the example above, with the hopes they will go well. Anyway, I imagine OP is/has been like that w/her sister.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

I would be very leery of letting the kids near her at this point. You will never shake her delusions and it is harmful to kids to experience that kind of revisionism. I hope your DC doesn’t understand what your sister now thinks about him or her. That could be devastating. You need to protect your kids from abusive behavior. I’m honestly kind of surprised you allowed her to get involved with hosting the party. Surely you knew what would happen?

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

Anonymous wrote:There is some pp who seems to think that mental health disorder is a permission for that individual to torment and abuse others and that it is CRUEL of those abused to not endure the abuse just bcs that family member might have undiagnosed mental health issue!
No, mental health disorders are not an excuse to ladle out abuse on others. What a messed up thinking that pp has!
Abuse is abuse and nobody should have to live with abuse.

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

OP again-- I'm not pissed at her, and re-reading my post, I think I made that clear. The only reason I haven't cut things off is her mental illness. Nobody would accept this kind of behavior from a stable person in their right mind. That's why she's lost so, so many "best friends" and severed so many relationships over the years. People who don't have to deal with it simply don't. It happens once and they're done. My dilemma is whether to do the same and call it a loss, maintain some form of contact albeit at a distance, or shrug it off as typical for her and maintain status quo. The thing is that the last option is what I've been doing for years, it has escalated, and I've basically gotten no positive emotional reward, only stress, disappointment, heartbreak, and hassle. She is my sister, she is ill, but I get nothing from this relationship and it is damaging my mental health. Now it has spread to my DH, and it would have already involved my kids if we didn't shield them. And I'm sure they've still picked up on the problems.

For example, one of our DC loves to swim, and my sister has a pool. For DC's birthday, they asked if they could have a family-only pool party at my sister's house. I told my sister about DC's request and left it very open and optional. Would you be open to this or should I discourage it and say no? My sister was elated, and said she was so happy DC wanted to celebrate at her house, she wants my kids to see her like a fun aunt, a second mom that they can depend on, etc etc. We had the party and it was fun. My sister went over the top with food and cake and seemed happy to do so. DH and I had planned for the food, but my sister added more, saying she wanted to make sure it was extra special for DC. And it was, DC loved it.

A few months later, there was blow up, not even involving me, and my sister started complaining that my DC was demanding and selfish, and that she (my sister) had done so much for them on their birthday and they hated the whole thing. When DC asked about a repeat the next year, we made excuses and arranged an alternative. My sister's story about the original party has grown, and if you asked her about it today, she would swear that DC had a horrible time and just wanted to use my sister for her pool. She just changes the narrative completely and then believes her own lies so that they become the truth for her. To dispute her version of events with her feels like you're trying to tell her that the sun is purple. I have learned to expect this from her, but understanding that that's what will happen doesn't make it any easier to navigate, especially with multiple family members--that I care deeply about--are involved on all sides.

You can't have it both ways, OP. Either your sister is mentally ill or she's not. You can't be pissed at her as if she's normal and respond to her as if she's a normal person doing crazy things, and also say she's ill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the posters saying, cut her off, shut the door, cut contact etc. -- this person is mentally ill. Why would you cut off someone mentally ill? They need help.

Talk to someone in the field who can help you deal with them. Learn to have internal borders, like, "This is my sister being mentally ill blah blah blah blah" when she's talking to you.

If a family can't have contact with a mentally ill family member, what's the rest of society supposed to do with them?

Clearly you have never been in OP’s situation. These types of people are not just toxic but destructive. They play the victim but they will do everything to spread misery around them. They are very difficult to treat and most of the time, they refuse treatment. Sadly, the only option for OP is cutting this destructive person out of her life.

Oh, that PP knows that situation well, I suspect because she herself is the mentally ill family member perpetrating the toxic, destructive, and likely abusive behavior. That is why she is arguing against cutting off abusive, mentally ill family members — she doesn’t want her victims to cut her off.

Such dramatic language. Actually, no. I have a mentally ill sister. She suffered so much in life, and instead of realizing how ill she was, I added to her burden by treating her like a b/tch or a normal person who just happened to be doing crazy things. There are so many ways I was heartless to her. I deeply regret not treating her with compassion. It's too late for us. I've been estranged from her for over 15 years. What a mistake. I was trying to help OP not go down that road.

Life is hell for the mentally ill. Normal, strong, mentally healthy people know how to draw boundaries without being martyrs to the mentally ill person's behavior. I wish I had known that. That's why I recommended getting advice from a professional for how OP could handle her mentally ill sister.

The PP above and the other PPs who misunderstood my motivations are clear examples of why you need a professional, OP -- don't rely on the advice of these armchair therapists. They're telling you more about themselves than they are about your relationship with your sister.

Again, I deeply, deeply regret treating my sister with the attitude you have, OP. It's too late for me and my sister but it's not too late for you. Be compassionate. She's ill.

Nice of you to lecture OP and others on how they need to stay in touch with and support the mentally ill while you conveniently do none of that yourself. What a hypocrite you are. Your regrets are meaningless. You just like to lecture.

That, and she’s not taking into account that the sister’s abuse can have very negative effects on OP’s mental health. It doesn’t matter why someone is abusing you, abuse has negative effects. That’s like saying it’s okay for a depressed parent to abuse or neglect their child, they’re dealing with mental illness. Sometimes you have to back away from the toxic person to save yourself, even if it’s not their fault they’re toxic.