Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Honestly if they want to change it then it needs to be birth year like soccer. That way there isn’t any switching of age groups in the middle of a 5 week season. As another poster said that messes up practice times too.

soccer is only like this for travel- if you play rec soccer you play with your grade level.
In terms of practice times- that is up to your team- the team can choose to have kids practice whenever they want and with whatever age group they want.
I swam for the NVSL when you aged up mid season. My kids swim now with the June 1st rule. We don't benefit from it (winter birthdays) but it is what it is. I see both sides, and basically think they just need a clear rule. The June 1st rule works. They could age mid season. They could set the age as of Aug 1st. (e.g. USA triathalon goes by birth year, so if you have a December birthday and will turn 11, but run a triathalon in the summer when you are 10, you will run as an '11 year old.') No matter when the cutoff is some kids will be advantaged and some kids will be disadvantaged.
I think the 19 year olds swimming is a red herring- very very few kids come back to swim for the NVSL after their freshman year of college.
It makes more of a difference for 8 and under's, less every year after that.

My kids are in rec soccer, and it’s by year, not grade.

Where we live it's by grade.

Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

I cannot like this post enough! Thank you, summer swim is for fun and its a short little season with short distances so that it is accessibly to all kids. It's weird that people bring winter swim examples into this at all. The vast majority of summer swim kids don't swim year round. They are there to cheer, have fun and hang out with friends.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the interesting age cutoff history. I enjoy parent rep drama as a parent rep myself!

Our club has a lot of really successful summer birthday swimmers. It definitely helps to turning 9 and competing against a group with a lot of 6-7 year olds, or turning 13 and competing against just-turned 11 year olds. Those are some big jumps physically and developmentally. I have a spring birthday kid so she is young for most activities that she does and the youngest in her grade because of pandemic redshirting. It is what it is so all you can do is observe it and shrug it off. When it gets my kid down, I gently remind her that she is being compared to kids who were in preschool when she was born. That helps give her some perspective.

A “turning 9” won’t compete against a 6 year old. They will be competing against 7-8 year olds. The max age difference remains 24 months.
Example: youngest kid in 7-8 bracket turned 7 on June 1st. Oldest kid was 8 on June 1st, turned 9 on June 2. 24 months.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Honestly if they want to change it then it needs to be birth year like soccer. That way there isn’t any switching of age groups in the middle of a 5 week season. As another poster said that messes up practice times too.

soccer is only like this for travel- if you play rec soccer you play with your grade level.
In terms of practice times- that is up to your team- the team can choose to have kids practice whenever they want and with whatever age group they want.
I swam for the NVSL when you aged up mid season. My kids swim now with the June 1st rule. We don't benefit from it (winter birthdays) but it is what it is. I see both sides, and basically think they just need a clear rule. The June 1st rule works. They could age mid season. They could set the age as of Aug 1st. (e.g. USA triathalon goes by birth year, so if you have a December birthday and will turn 11, but run a triathalon in the summer when you are 10, you will run as an '11 year old.') No matter when the cutoff is some kids will be advantaged and some kids will be disadvantaged.
I think the 19 year olds swimming is a red herring- very very few kids come back to swim for the NVSL after their freshman year of college.
It makes more of a difference for 8 and under's, less every year after that.

My kids are in rec soccer, and it’s by year, not grade.

Someone always has to be the oldest and someone always has to be the youngest. There will be winners and losers no matter where you make the birthday cut. Go read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell.

Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

You have way too much time on your hands to open a thread about swimming if your child isn't a swimmer, read all of it and comment.

I'm 8:48. The June 1st date has disadvantaged my swimmer but that's life. These are the children in the age group, my child is faster than some and slower than some. Partly based on age and partly based on ability, but that's life. You could do age groups based on birth year but you will still have someone who is the very youngest 13yr old and the very oldest 14yr old who are essentially two years apart.

It's a 6wk season, shuffling kids based on birthdays gets way too complicated for what is a fun summer activity.

Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

Get a grip. This is like this with lots of stuff. We aren’t ruining everything. It’s a fact it disadvantages some kids and gives an advantage to others. Don’t open a link like this if it sets you off and “ruins” things for you.

You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

Anonymous wrote:And yet it happens all the time in winter swim. Ask those of us with kids with March birthdays and how difficult it is to make JOs.

Of all swim bdays in this area, the days of early March are the worst. Bad for JOs, summer, long course champs, short course zones, ncsa, isca, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NVSL voted this rule after major lobbying fromTeam Reps who had children w/ summer birthdays. That is the truth of it. There was some discussion of at least choosing a summer swim meet date (usually 3rd Sat in June) but two parent reps w/ kids’ birthdays on or about June 1 and June 15 claimed it would be administratively easier to just arbitrarily (and conveniently) choose June 1 as the date. Coincidentally team rep’s child broke the pool record by lowering the 11-12 year old record as a biologically aged 13 year old. Over the years, most of our pool records have been broken by the age advantage. 9 year olds beat the records of 8 and understand… 19 year old division 1 swimmers who turn 19 at the begin I g of June can now compete as 18 year olds. I was resentful but accept it is what it is. They just need to change the record titles for accuracy or add an asterisk to the records.

I agree the biggest disadvantage to regular swimmers are kids that turn 9 in June that compete as 8 & under and kids that turn 19 and are division 1 college swimmers. It is an advantage in other cases, but most obvious in those two.

No way. The absolutely biggest disadvantages are the 13 year olds swimming against 11/12 year olds or a 15 year old swimming against 13/14 year olds. This is purely because of puberty. A 13 year old girl may be fully done growing or mostly done growing. An 11 year old may be years from puberty. A 15 year old boy is likely within a few inches of his final height and a newly 13 year old may not even be in puberty yet. The 19 year old who swam division 1 has an advantage for sure but not like this. Go watch those boys or girls in these age groups line up at a meet. The exception is breast - bc height is so impt there.

Anonymous wrote:I get the frustration. I have a swimmer whose ability to make A meets is definitely impacted by the two kids in the AG who are 18mos older, and it's hard. But that's life in almost everything. As pointed out there are cutoffs for school and other sports, so no matter what date you choose you're going to have kids potentially 2 or more years apart.

I'll also say now that we have middle schoolers it's hard emotionally on those summer birthday kids too as their friends move up an age group and they are stuck with the younger group. My child has a friend who was a rising 8th grader this summer and was clearly unhappy to be in the age group with rising 6th graders while classmates moved into the teen ranks. It didn't matter as much to them when they were all elementary schoolers but socially it was an impact. No, it shouldn't be, but middle schoolers are irrational.

TLDL, changing the process might benefit my child so selfishly yes I'd say change it. Reality is the cut-off is somewhere so I don't really stress about it. It isn't worth a floating date for a 6wk season.

Having a summer birthday is hard and there is honestly no way to do age cutoffs so it is easier unless we moved all the age cutoffs to the middle of winter (Jan 1). And that would cause other problems, I'm sure.

Probably the most "fair" thing to do would be to eliminate age cut-offs altogether and have kids qualify for levels at the beginning of the season. But that would be expensive and time consuming and it also introduces another competitive layer which means more complaining and gaming of the system, not less. The arbitrary age cut off might seem unfair, but with kids activities sometimes it's preferable to have things be unfair in an obvious way that is easy for people to understand. It's easier for kids to grasp and deal with "yeah, I'm the youngest in this group so I don't do as well" than it is to understand "I didn't swim as fast on qualifying day so now I'm not even allowed to compete against the kids I swam with last summer."

https://www.mynvsl.com/file/28097/NVSL1965_Handbook_pdf

The age rule when the league started was the same it is today. You swim in the age group as your age on June 1.

I have one kid who is advantaged by it, and one who is severely disadvantaged by it. But the rule makes sense to me. It’s a short season and it sucks to switch in the middle for coaches and kids. Summer swim is supposed to be fun. People need to chill.

I get the frustration. I have a swimmer whose ability to make A meets is definitely impacted by the two kids in the AG who are 18mos older, and it's hard. But that's life in almost everything. As pointed out there are cutoffs for school and other sports, so no matter what date you choose you're going to have kids potentially 2 or more years apart.

I'll also say now that we have middle schoolers it's hard emotionally on those summer birthday kids too as their friends move up an age group and they are stuck with the younger group. My child has a friend who was a rising 8th grader this summer and was clearly unhappy to be in the age group with rising 6th graders while classmates moved into the teen ranks. It didn't matter as much to them when they were all elementary schoolers but socially it was an impact. No, it shouldn't be, but middle schoolers are irrational.

TLDL, changing the process might benefit my child so selfishly yes I'd say change it. Reality is the cut-off is somewhere so I don't really stress about it. It isn't worth a floating date for a 6wk season.

With these age groups there will always be kids competing against others 2 years older (or 4 for the teens). What is too much? 2 years plus 1 day?

Anonymous wrote:It's not the "wrong" age group. Put away the sour grapes.

+1 every sport has a cutoff. The fact that swim chases the birthday is weird. A birth day is arbitrary. You don’t grow bc it’s the date of your birth. One day you’re 14 competing with your friends and bc of a date in the calendar, your swimming against much older kids the next weekend. At least with other sports you compete with the same team for a year.