Anonymous
Post 09/20/2022 08:19     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
So a poor kid of illiterate or non English speaking parents will have no benefit or even regress if they attend free high quality pre-k?

Bull ! People are so scared of their mediocre kid getting outperformed by poor POC kids aren’t they?
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 20:48     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


Universal pre-K does help poor so you could try it more. Year round schools and late opening seems to me to be smart for some percentage of the population.


Universal pre-k has had mixed results. Some studies show a benefit. Other studies say the benefits go away after a few years, and at least one study even said the control group did better after a few years.

It hasn't been the home run people thought it would be. The jury is still out. It *may* help, but you'd be gambling billions of dollars on the chance that it *may* help.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 20:24     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:How about we start the school day for most kids at 9. Have the sports teams practice period be a flexi one and those kids can come in 7/8 to cover that class that the rest do 3/4.

If kids don’t have to wake up at the crack of dawn they won’t be tired.



Most young kids get up early naturally unless they have no bedtimes like so many of them. They stay up until all hours on devices.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 20:23     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


This. And also outlaw private schools except ones that only do religious education.


What schools only do religious education?



Apparently, the Hasidic schools in NY.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:39     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
How about we start the school day for most kids at 9. Have the sports teams practice period be a flexi one and those kids can come in 7/8 to cover that class that the rest do 3/4.

If kids don’t have to wake up at the crack of dawn they won’t be tired.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:38     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


This. And also outlaw private schools except ones that only do religious education.


How does forcing MORE kids into crowded, underfunded public education help?
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:35     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


This. And also outlaw private schools except ones that only do religious education.


What schools only do religious education?
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:30     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.


Honestly, this. Set a reasonably high floor for public education and make sure that the education offered at every school is sufficient for a student to become literate, numerate, and employable. Offer a track at every school that can lead to college and robust vocational training opportunities for kids not interested in college.

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


Pretty sure this is what we have now.

You can't make kids show up (apparently). And, hungry sleeping kids struggle to pay attention and learn, so no matter how great to teacher and curriculum are, an exhausted child does not learn.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:28     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Sorry for staying the obvious but ESOL kids are fluent in a foreign language. Instead of seeing them as an educational hinderance look at the huge benefits. Search for relevant foreign newspapers online covering a major event in history or geography or social studies. Set reading lists of books from country of origin. Discuss how western medias portray of a country or event aligns with the local populations take. There is a lot of rich material there to mine.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:26     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:I don’t see what’s really wrong with closing the achievement gap from the top down.

Virtually all the people at the top benefited from unearned privilege.


So your proposal is to not educate bright kids to their actual potential? You should write a book, "The Dumbing Down of America." We still need rocket scientists.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:17     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


This. And also outlaw private schools except ones that only do religious education.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 19:12     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Title 1 schools in FCPS offer free meals and they have smaller class sizes and there are more reading and math specialists on hand to help students and they send home free books. I am not sure what else these schools can do but there is still a gap and that gap is growing.


Smaller class sizes than where? Are you claiming that UMC white kids are in larger classes than poor brown ones if so then an Oprah special should be dedicated to that title 1 school and those schools with classes of 40 POC kids need to be told how to achieve that.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 18:28     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


Title 1 schools in FCPS have pre-K for the kids who are from impoverished families and small classroom sizes. The gap persists. Part of the problem is that ESOL are placed in a regular classroom in ES. In MS, the ESOL kids have their own classes and you start to see gains when that happens. I have no clue why the ESOL classes are not separated out in ES so that younger kids have a better chance of staying on grade level while learning English. It would decrease the need for ESOL class in MS because the kids were more likely to learn English in ES. The ESOL program would still be needed for kids who are arriving at later ages but hopefully the ES kids would be able to move out of it at an earlier age.

And nothing that is done in the schools will work if the kids do not make it to school. There is a higher level of absenteeism associated with lower incomes. If the kids are not at school, there is no chance to help them learn.

Title 1 schools offer summer school to FARMs families and parents choose not to participate.

There is a large societal issue at play here, we are not going to fix it by slowing down things for the MC and UMC kids.




I disagree about putting all ESOL students in ES in totally separate classes. First of all, it's not legal. Secondly, students learn a lot from their peers. If you separate all of the Spanish speaking students, they won't have any English speaking role models. I'm an ESOL teacher and my kindergarteners almost always make grade level benchmarks by the end of the year unless they have attendance issues or cognitive ones. It takes a lot of work but it can be done.


The issue isn't with the younger kids it's with the older kids which makes sense, language pickup gets exponentially harder as you age.

I agree with the prior poster, there is only so much bending over backwards you can do.

The best thing you can do is tailor high school to reality. College for all was a terrible invention from the Obama years. Most people still aren't cut out for a traditional 4 year college. High school needs to be made more practical so kids can actually get jobs after graduation. The majority of students (non 4 year college) are fine with a 10th grade education and don't need more than 2 years of high school math science english etc. The bulk of the final 2 years needs to be geared towards gaining a practical skill for employment post graduation.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 17:39     Subject: Re:What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It can't be done. Proven time and time again. We should just give up on this idea and go to another plan.



When have we offered universal pre- k to all? Class sizes in public school as small as private school ( max 15). Universal Year round schooling and late opening hours to mitigate extra tutoring and enrichment by the middle class/rich?

The answer is never so we have never done what would work to actually level the playing field. What happens outside the classroom is at least equally if not more important. Kids need supervision to get homework done, intervention if behind, the ability to move at their own pace.


Title 1 schools in FCPS have pre-K for the kids who are from impoverished families and small classroom sizes. The gap persists. Part of the problem is that ESOL are placed in a regular classroom in ES. In MS, the ESOL kids have their own classes and you start to see gains when that happens. I have no clue why the ESOL classes are not separated out in ES so that younger kids have a better chance of staying on grade level while learning English. It would decrease the need for ESOL class in MS because the kids were more likely to learn English in ES. The ESOL program would still be needed for kids who are arriving at later ages but hopefully the ES kids would be able to move out of it at an earlier age.

And nothing that is done in the schools will work if the kids do not make it to school. There is a higher level of absenteeism associated with lower incomes. If the kids are not at school, there is no chance to help them learn.

Title 1 schools offer summer school to FARMs families and parents choose not to participate.

There is a large societal issue at play here, we are not going to fix it by slowing down things for the MC and UMC kids.




I disagree about putting all ESOL students in ES in totally separate classes. First of all, it's not legal. Secondly, students learn a lot from their peers. If you separate all of the Spanish speaking students, they won't have any English speaking role models. I'm an ESOL teacher and my kindergarteners almost always make grade level benchmarks by the end of the year unless they have attendance issues or cognitive ones. It takes a lot of work but it can be done.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2022 15:58     Subject: What can be done to level the playing field?
Anonymous wrote:
So what is the high achieving immigrants from poverty stricken countries who are staffing our hospitals and tech firms do right then to do as well as they did?. That future doctor in rural India had far fewer resources available to them than any American kid today.


There are those who immigrate to the US for the opportunity to send their kids to better schools and have a better life. They are coming for a very specific purpose and they make attending school a point of emphasis.

There are those who are immigrating out of desperation because of crime or lack of jobs. They come to the US for jobs but they seem to come for the agricultural jobs or other unskilled labor. I don't know why many of the immigrants from Central and South America don't put as much an emphasis on education. Maybe it is because many of the families that come with kids are moving from place to place following crops for picking. Maybe it is because the parents expect the kids to be working or watching siblings. I don't know why, but it is clear that there is a different expectation and that many immigrants from Central and South America are absent from school.

I know that there are studies showing that the generational poor in the US, Blacks in the inner city and white kids in Appalachia for example, have issues with attendance and dropping out. There is a cycle of poverty that seems to be tied with a lack of an education. The parents dropped out and can't help the kids with school work. Or don't see school as important because they never completed it. There are thousands of studies that identify the problem but no on seems to know how to address the problem.

Title 1 schools in FCPS offer free meals and they have smaller class sizes and there are more reading and math specialists on hand to help students and they send home free books. I am not sure what else these schools can do but there is still a gap and that gap is growing.

And I don't think the solution is to make things easier for the kids who are attending and whose parents are invested. All that does is handicap those kids while we continue to fail the kids who are already behind.