Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:12
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
But this has a much more dangerous precedent than one coach. Praying and rewarding players for not joining.
I can guarantee you that next coach isn't going to give a damn and he's going to punish
I can guarantee you that next coach isn't going to give a damn and he's going to punish
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:10
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is about free speech and free exercise of religion.
No student is forced to participate in a post game prayer. This decision affirms the right for a coach to pray publicly following a game (or before a game).
This does not violate the separation of church and state.
Did you ever play HS sports? When the coach asks the team to participate in a public team prayer, there is a lot of pressure for everyone to participate. The ones who don’t want to do it bow their heads and are silent or mumble. If you are going to object to the prayer you may as well quit the team because you will be treated as a problem.
A few players went to Coach Kennedy to express that they were uncomfortable joining the prayer.
Do you know what he did?
He made them co-captains because he admired their willingness to speak out to him and to express their opinions. He viewed them as leaders.
If a player feels as if he/she has been pressured..... they can take that case to court.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:09
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Some of you haven't played competitive sports and it shows. Trust me when a coach suggests something or mentions doing something in passing you sure as hell better do it. It is not a suggestion. It is expected.
Now the coach here may not have meant to coerce the players to pray, but the mere fact that he started doing it and felt that it was okay to do so in that venue where the team was sure as hell made those players feel like they had to.
Now the coach here may not have meant to coerce the players to pray, but the mere fact that he started doing it and felt that it was okay to do so in that venue where the team was sure as hell made those players feel like they had to.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:08
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes it is. Read the case.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MMoH started us on this path towards intolerance towards religious expression in the 60’s. I am thankful God is taking back the places people were restricted from their free exercise of religion. In the oral argument, the lawyer for the district said coercion of students had nothing to do with this case. Many chose to join his sessions.
It speaks wonders to know so many from the stands rushed the field to join the coach in prayer.
This was such the right decision.
Many felt like they had to join his sessions because then they wouldn’t get playing time over those who did if they didn’t.
That is just not true at all.
Read the case and the oral arguments and statements from the school and the parents. There was zero coercion.
If you think that persons in positions of authority over children - like coaches and teachers - can ask children to join in prayer to Jesus Christ without having Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, or agnostic children feeling coerced then you clearly have no understanding of children and the power of teachers and coaches over them. Would you ever say that a student could avoid sexual advances by a coach because there was no "coercion"? Simply being in a position of authority over children implies a level of coercive power.
You didn’t read the case or the news. When he started doi the prayers privately, SOME students ASKED to join him. There was zero coercion.
He’s their coach. They are kissing his ass. They could pray on their own but coach-led prayer is inherently coercive.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:08
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Am I reading this wrong that the guy prayed on his own time and didn't lead anything?
I am a committed atheist but I don't see anything wrong with a private prayer.
He violated the rights of others by praying in the public sphere. Do whatever you want in your own home or in a building specifically designated for religion but do not bring religion into the public sphere.
So I am not allowed to pray anywhere in the "public sphere"??? Not allowed to thank God for the food in front of me at a restaurant? Not allowed to stand in the middle of Yosemite and thank God for its beauty? Not allowed to pray for someone's recovery if I am walking down the street and see a car accident?
Yes, you are a private individiual, you are allowed to do what you want.
What you can't do is, in your professional capacity, coerce others into joining you, overtly or by implication. Well, I guess you can now, which means, kids who don't join the coach's prayer circle might lose their starting position.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:08
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Am I reading this wrong that the guy prayed on his own time and didn't lead anything?
I am a committed atheist but I don't see anything wrong with a private prayer.
He violated the rights of others by praying in the public sphere. Do whatever you want in your own home or in a building specifically designated for religion but do not bring religion into the public sphere.
So I am not allowed to pray anywhere in the "public sphere"??? Not allowed to thank God for the food in front of me at a restaurant? Not allowed to stand in the middle of Yosemite and thank God for its beauty? Not allowed to pray for someone's recovery if I am walking down the street and see a car accident?
Correct. Public spaces belong to all, not just just religionists.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:07
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:How many Muslim clerics are football coaches? My gosh you people always go to the extreme!
Why is it extreme? Have you considered that some of of us think Christian prayer in a sports venue at a public high school is extreme?
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:06
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Perfect. Lets start leading some Muslim prayers in school.
This. We have some extended family in the Midwest that see nothing wrong with this because they are very religious (Christians obviously) and are surrounded by similar people so for them this so normal, having prayer at board school meetings, political meetings, school, sports events and so on. Because they think the US is a Christian country where other faiths exist and are tolerated as long as they do their things in their homes/place of faith. They don’t conceive that if taxpayer money goes to Christian schools then their packager money can support a Muslim school or a Indù school. Let’s have a Muslim cleric pray on the 50 line at their HS Friday night game and you will see WW3
The projection of "liberal bubbles" when this is how so much of America lives is astounding.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 13:06
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:This is about free speech and free exercise of religion.
No student is forced to participate in a post game prayer. This decision affirms the right for a coach to pray publicly following a game (or before a game).
This does not violate the separation of church and state.
Did you ever play HS sports? When the coach asks the team to participate in a public team prayer, there is a lot of pressure for everyone to participate. The ones who don’t want to do it bow their heads and are silent or mumble. If you are going to object to the prayer you may as well quit the team because you will be treated as a problem.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:58
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Am I reading this wrong that the guy prayed on his own time and didn't lead anything?
I am a committed atheist but I don't see anything wrong with a private prayer.
He violated the rights of others by praying in the public sphere. Do whatever you want in your own home or in a building specifically designated for religion but do not bring religion into the public sphere.
So I am not allowed to pray anywhere in the "public sphere"??? Not allowed to thank God for the food in front of me at a restaurant? Not allowed to stand in the middle of Yosemite and thank God for its beauty? Not allowed to pray for someone's recovery if I am walking down the street and see a car accident?
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:57
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes it is. Read the case.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MMoH started us on this path towards intolerance towards religious expression in the 60’s. I am thankful God is taking back the places people were restricted from their free exercise of religion. In the oral argument, the lawyer for the district said coercion of students had nothing to do with this case. Many chose to join his sessions.
It speaks wonders to know so many from the stands rushed the field to join the coach in prayer.
This was such the right decision.
Many felt like they had to join his sessions because then they wouldn’t get playing time over those who did if they didn’t.
That is just not true at all.
Read the case and the oral arguments and statements from the school and the parents. There was zero coercion.
If you think that persons in positions of authority over children - like coaches and teachers - can ask children to join in prayer to Jesus Christ without having Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, or agnostic children feeling coerced then you clearly have no understanding of children and the power of teachers and coaches over them. Would you ever say that a student could avoid sexual advances by a coach because there was no "coercion"? Simply being in a position of authority over children implies a level of coercive power.
You didn’t read the case or the news. When he started doi the prayers privately, SOME students ASKED to join him. There was zero coercion.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:56
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
How many Muslim clerics are football coaches? My gosh you people always go to the extreme!
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:53
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Perfect. Lets start leading some Muslim prayers in school.
This. We have some extended family in the Midwest that see nothing wrong with this because they are very religious (Christians obviously) and are surrounded by similar people so for them this so normal, having prayer at board school meetings, political meetings, school, sports events and so on. Because they think the US is a Christian country where other faiths exist and are tolerated as long as they do their things in their homes/place of faith. They don’t conceive that if taxpayer money goes to Christian schools then their packager money can support a Muslim school or a Indù school. Let’s have a Muslim cleric pray on the 50 line at their HS Friday night game and you will see WW3
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:52
Subject: Re:Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MMoH started us on this path towards intolerance towards religious expression in the 60’s. I am thankful God is taking back the places people were restricted from their free exercise of religion. In the oral argument, the lawyer for the district said coercion of students had nothing to do with this case. Many chose to join his sessions.
It speaks wonders to know so many from the stands rushed the field to join the coach in prayer.
This was such the right decision.
I do not believe in God, I do not want my children being led in prayer in their public school and I consider this ruling a violation of my and my children's religious freedom. I might be more appalled by this than the abortion ruling for which I disagreed, but could follow the constitutional logic. This literally is pushing me to vote democratic when I've been frustrated with Biden and the far left.
No child was forced to join in prayer. The coach had the right to exercise his religion freely.
Do you truly not understand human social power dynamics or are you just arguing? Being a leader comes with responsibility. Using your power to manipulate minors or subordinates is not moral.
And just what do parents do every day? Thank you for making your ridiculous point for everyone to see!
You are truly insane.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 12:47
Subject: Separaton of Church and State
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For Catholics, they have short historical memories. This is part of the problem with having little geographical diversity on the Court (heavy on mid-Atlantic Catholics). I grew up in the South and West, where there are a lot of Christians (including Evangelicals and Mormons) who think that Catholics are Papist idolators going straight to hell, and they were praying for our conversion. Catholics were some of the early proponents of separation of church and state in the U.S., because they were a minority and disfavored religion for so long.
Justice Brennan, a devout Catholic, realized that separate of church and state is necessary for people to be able to practice freely. Combining church and state is good for neither the church nor the state. (As the Inquisition and the Renaissance teach us - again, short historical memories.)
I feel bad for the Jewish and Muslim kids in place like the South and Midwest, who are going to have to hold hands and mouth the Our Father if they want any playing time.
Also, funny how when it comes to my womb, it's all about local governmental control, but when it comes to asking a football coach not to organize a prayer circle with his teenage players, suddenly the local authorities don't know what they are doing.
And Hindu kids, and Sikh kids, and Jain kids, and aethist kids...
But isn’t that the point really? Make everyone who is not a white Catholic or evangelist feel unwelcome and uncomfortable in participating in society. Keep them out of institutions and society. Certainly make them uninteresting in becoming society’s leaders. And then it’s just more comfortable and peaceful for the religious right.