Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:47     Subject: Re:Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.


Hey PP, just wanted to say that if you converted, you are a Jew. I’d be happy to have you for Seder or if you’re single, marry into my Jewish family. Any Jewish person who says otherwise is nothing but a shanda.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:47     Subject: Re:Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.


You act as though this is a subjective thing.

“Ashkenazi Jewish” is a genetically distinct ethnicity. Same thing with Sephardim and Mizrahim. I’m glad you feel part of the Jewish community. But please do not act as though an ethnic Jewish identity is something subjective. It is not.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:45     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.



Good thing there’s more to Judaism than the Torah.


Everything derives from the Torah.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:45     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people putting ethnicity in quotes? It’s so deeply offensive.


Because when you are talking about “Ethnic Judaism,” you are referring to a specific sub group of Jews- white, Ashkenazi descendants- and lifting this group up as the sole bearers of “real” Judaism. That’s gross. If you want to talk about how folks who converted to Judaism feel vs folks who were born Jewish, that’s one conversation.

Not all Jewish people born Jewish are of Ashkenazi descent. They may be of any background.


I never once said that. Point to where I said that.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:45     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.

Really? When Solomon dedicated the temple he expressly mentioned that foreigners and strangers should also be welcomed by God


That isn’t about conversion.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:18     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Ruth was not Jewish
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:12     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:Why are people putting ethnicity in quotes? It’s so deeply offensive.


Because when you are talking about “Ethnic Judaism,” you are referring to a specific sub group of Jews- white, Ashkenazi descendants- and lifting this group up as the sole bearers of “real” Judaism. That’s gross. If you want to talk about how folks who converted to Judaism feel vs folks who were born Jewish, that’s one conversation.

Not all Jewish people born Jewish are of Ashkenazi descent. They may be of any background.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 10:06     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.



Good thing there’s more to Judaism than the Torah.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 09:51     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:OP, in addition to the suggestions above, you might be interested in listening to the annual Conversion episodes of Tablet Magazine's Unorthodox podcast: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/unorthodox-podcast-conversion-episode-shavuot-2021 (links to previous years are there, too). And the podcast in general is well suited to the Judaism-curious.


The podcast Can We Talk? by the Jewish Women's Archive is also excellent if you'd like an overview of women's issues in the Jewish community generally in the past 50 years or so.
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 09:38     Subject: Jewish curious ….
OP, as you can see, we love to debate and analyze. There are so many nuances and interpretations - and everyone thinks they are right. Just follow your interest and find a welcoming congregation. You too will be able to debate like the rest of us! Welcome! : )
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 09:06     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.

Really? When Solomon dedicated the temple he expressly mentioned that foreigners and strangers should also be welcomed by God
Anonymous
Post 06/27/2022 07:36     Subject: Re:Jewish curious ….
Hi, convert to Judaism here. When I began attending a synagogue and learning about Judaism, I was afraid that the focus in the liturgy and in the culture on ancestry and generational connection (what PP is describing as ethnicity) would always be a barrier to full Jewish life for me if I converted. That feeling that I would always be an outsider held me back for years. That's what the conversion process is for. I don't know any converts (and I know many across denominations, including rabbis) who continue to struggle with feeling part of the Jewish people after the mikveh, except when confronted by other Jews who question their legitimacy or start talking about how converts "from an ethnic standpoint, can never be" part of the Jewish people.

PP, how do you think Jewish adults who were converted at birth feel about their connection to the Jewish people? How about the children of converts? Not to mention how your argument perpetuates the struggles of Jews of color. I think it's time for you to stop "talking about how I think some converts might feel" and just let us speak for ourselves.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2022 21:55     Subject: Jewish curious ….
The Torah contains no reference to converts to Judaism. It describes the history of the Jewish people as a nationality and ethnicity. The notion of conversion is one entirely invented outside the Torah itself.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2022 21:36     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Anonymous wrote:Many Jews will not accept you as a Jew if you're a convert. That's just the way it is.



Is 5 many, or 7, or 15 or ...? Does "many" mean the ultra-orthodox religious fanatics?

Many Jews will accept you. That's just the way it is.
Anonymous
Post 06/26/2022 21:19     Subject: Jewish curious ….
Why are people putting ethnicity in quotes? It’s so deeply offensive.