Anonymous wrote:To my knowledge Law is the only profession where even 20 years out, one lawyer will ask another - where did you go to school? And they mean both undergrad and law. And I guess, hearing from legal friends, being able to say Cornell Yale is more prestigious than saying Wooster Yale.

I'm a lawyer of this vintage and this is just not true. No one asks!

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts.
I agree that law school may not be in his future despite his current inclination. But in that case, isnt it better to go to a place like Vassar or Haverford (at $80k) rather than Wooster or Gettysburg (at $30) or are SLACs really that fungible?
Also interested to hear that masters at SAIS or Georgetown not useful. I had thought that if you went to a “no-name” school, a masters from better rep school would be very beneficial?

A masters in IF is useless unless you have money to burn don’t do it.

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Nice PR - or PC - work there.

You are going to have to explain why the SCOTUS justices don't come out of mediocre schools.

Clarence Thomas went to Holy Cross. Not mediocre, but not top tier either. Amy Coney Barrett went to Rhodes. In any event, it's only a recent thing where all of the justices went to fancy schools (even if you want to call Notre Dame fancy). In the 20th and 21st Centuries, one-third of Supreme Court justices did not attend top 25 law schools. Warren Burger, who Nixon selected as Chiel Justice and who served on the Court until 1986, went to the William Mitchell College of Law. Thurgood Marshall went to Howard. Lewis Powell went to Washington & Lee.

Next question?

All of the above bolds are private schools. None of your examples shows a mediocre school producing anything of value, i.e., the University of Dayton, the University of Puerto Rico, the University of Guam, UMBC...

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

I never said it matters to law firms at all -- at law firms all that matters is the law school.

I also never said that Yale doesn't admit anyone who didn't attend a top college. I merely said it was "somewhat" of any exception. Yes, I'm aware of their published list for the last five years, but the list doesn't say how many students from each school was actually admitted and are attending. If you really have time, click on the Skadden website and read the bios of the Yale Law grads who work there. You'll see that the overwhelming majority went to elite colleges.

That list is about 180 schools. In five years, Yale had about 1000 students enroll. All this shows is that where you attend college is not a bar to entry, but without more data, it's impossible to say whether it is comparatively easier to get accepted at Yale if you're applying from certain schools rather than others. So you can't say that it doesn't matter.

Your last two sentences contradict each other, so I don't get your point. My point is that it DOES matter, at least "somewhat," at Yale. It's a small law school that is more selective than any in the country. The large majority of Yale Law students went to top colleges -- fact.

I think I probably would agree with you. You can get into Yale law from any undergraduate institution, but I think (not know) that it is easier to do some from a small group of colleges (certainly Yale undergrad). There is a difference between "can you do it" vs "how hard is it".

It's easier to do from Yale because there are way more ridiculously smart, hard-working, ambitious overachievers there than at less selective schools, not because Yale has a golden ticket they hand out to each graduate. A superstar is a superstar, regardless of where they get their education.

so, it's easier.

No, not for any one individual. My comment referred to it being natural that a place with more qualified applicants would yield more acceptances--I could have phrased that better. The same individual, though, would not have an easier time applying from Yale than from, say, Wesleyan or Connecticut College.

That’s pure speculation. All you reasonably know is that a greater percentage of the class is from Yale vs Wesleyan. Everything else is your off the cuff belief.

And your opinion is your off-he-cuff belief. I believe mine is more based in fact. It's not exactly the same thing, but take a look at Alan Krueger and Stacy Dale's study of lifetime income sometime. They've shown definitively that someone's earning capacity is not attributable to where they went to college. Those who don't go to a super-selective college but were of a similar caliber earn just as much as those who did attend the elite colleges. It seems likely, in my off-the-cuff opinion, that the same would apply to likelihood of success at Yale Law and that their admission team knows this.

Ha ha ha. Different poster here. Nothing that you just said is "fact." You have no idea what Yale Law admissions people think. None. Zero. But I can tell you one thing that I KNOW they think: that Yale undergrads are good bets for admission because they have a proven track record of success. And the number two school represented at Yale Law? Harvard, of course.

Starting at page 114 of the attached Yale Law School Bulletin for 2019-2020 -- the most recent one that I could find -- there's a list of schools by the numbers for the entire student body in 2018. There were 635 students enrolled in the JD program in the year.
Of those 635, here are the schools with more than five students represented in the entering class.

Yale: 90
Harvard: 59
Columbia: 34
Princeton: 31
Stanford: 22
Dartmouth: 21
Cornell: 19
Chicago: 18
Brown: 17
Penn: 16
Georgetown: 13
UC-Berkeley: 13
Duke: 10
Michigan: 8
Northwestern: 8
USC: 8
Johns Hopkins: 7
UVA: 7
Amherst: 6
Swarthmore: 6

These schools alone, all of which are considered top tier, accounted for 413 of Yale's 635 student enrolled that year.

Then you have other fine schools enrolling multiple applicants: Barnard, BC, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Colgate, William & Mary, Davidson, Emory, Haverford, Pomona, MIT, Middlebury, NYU, Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U, UCLA, Tufts, the military and naval academies, Vanderbilt, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Williams, and UNC. No slackers here, either, and these schools combined account for another 84 students.

So now you're at 497, leaving only 138 to count. Quite a few of those are from top schools as well.

Yes, maybe 1/5 of the student body at Yale Law in 2018 came from less "fancy" schools, but in most of those cases we are talking about one student represented in all three classes (not one in each class). There are exceptions, to be sure -- BYU had 5, DePaul had 3, and a few less high regarded big state schools had a couple each.

So it seems to me that the Yale admissions team leans heavily in favor of students at very highly regarded schools, and that what you say is fact is closer to fiction.

https://bulletin.yale.edu/sites/default/files/yale-law-school-2019-2020.pdf

Yikes! Someone needs to go back to basic data analysis class...

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

I never said it matters to law firms at all -- at law firms all that matters is the law school.

I also never said that Yale doesn't admit anyone who didn't attend a top college. I merely said it was "somewhat" of any exception. Yes, I'm aware of their published list for the last five years, but the list doesn't say how many students from each school was actually admitted and are attending. If you really have time, click on the Skadden website and read the bios of the Yale Law grads who work there. You'll see that the overwhelming majority went to elite colleges.

That list is about 180 schools. In five years, Yale had about 1000 students enroll. All this shows is that where you attend college is not a bar to entry, but without more data, it's impossible to say whether it is comparatively easier to get accepted at Yale if you're applying from certain schools rather than others. So you can't say that it doesn't matter.

Your last two sentences contradict each other, so I don't get your point. My point is that it DOES matter, at least "somewhat," at Yale. It's a small law school that is more selective than any in the country. The large majority of Yale Law students went to top colleges -- fact.

I think I probably would agree with you. You can get into Yale law from any undergraduate institution, but I think (not know) that it is easier to do some from a small group of colleges (certainly Yale undergrad). There is a difference between "can you do it" vs "how hard is it".

It's easier to do from Yale because there are way more ridiculously smart, hard-working, ambitious overachievers there than at less selective schools, not because Yale has a golden ticket they hand out to each graduate. A superstar is a superstar, regardless of where they get their education.

so, it's easier.

No, not for any one individual. My comment referred to it being natural that a place with more qualified applicants would yield more acceptances--I could have phrased that better. The same individual, though, would not have an easier time applying from Yale than from, say, Wesleyan or Connecticut College.

That’s pure speculation. All you reasonably know is that a greater percentage of the class is from Yale vs Wesleyan. Everything else is your off the cuff belief.

And your opinion is your off-he-cuff belief. I believe mine is more based in fact. It's not exactly the same thing, but take a look at Alan Krueger and Stacy Dale's study of lifetime income sometime. They've shown definitively that someone's earning capacity is not attributable to where they went to college. Those who don't go to a super-selective college but were of a similar caliber earn just as much as those who did attend the elite colleges. It seems likely, in my off-the-cuff opinion, that the same would apply to likelihood of success at Yale Law and that their admission team knows this.

Ha ha ha. Different poster here. Nothing that you just said is "fact." You have no idea what Yale Law admissions people think. None. Zero. But I can tell you one thing that I KNOW they think: that Yale undergrads are good bets for admission because they have a proven track record of success. And the number two school represented at Yale Law? Harvard, of course.

Starting at page 114 of the attached Yale Law School Bulletin for 2019-2020 -- the most recent one that I could find -- there's a list of schools by the numbers for the entire student body in 2018. There were 635 students enrolled in the JD program in the year.
Of those 635, here are the schools with more than five students represented in the entering class.

Yale: 90
Harvard: 59
Columbia: 34
Princeton: 31
Stanford: 22
Dartmouth: 21
Cornell: 19
Chicago: 18
Brown: 17
Penn: 16
Georgetown: 13
UC-Berkeley: 13
Duke: 10
Michigan: 8
Northwestern: 8
USC: 8
Johns Hopkins: 7
UVA: 7
Amherst: 6
Swarthmore: 6

These schools alone, all of which are considered top tier, accounted for 413 of Yale's 635 student enrolled that year.

Then you have other fine schools enrolling multiple applicants: Barnard, BC, Bowdoin, Claremont McKenna, Colgate, William & Mary, Davidson, Emory, Haverford, Pomona, MIT, Middlebury, NYU, Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U, UCLA, Tufts, the military and naval academies, Vanderbilt, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Williams, and UNC. No slackers here, either, and these schools combined account for another 84 students.

So now you're at 497, leaving only 138 to count. Quite a few of those are from top schools as well.

Yes, maybe 1/5 of the student body at Yale Law in 2018 came from less "fancy" schools, but in most of those cases we are talking about one student represented in all three classes (not one in each class). There are exceptions, to be sure -- BYU had 5, DePaul had 3, and a few less high regarded big state schools had a couple each.

So it seems to me that the Yale admissions team leans heavily in favor of students at very highly regarded schools, and that what you say is fact is closer to fiction.

https://bulletin.yale.edu/sites/default/files/yale-law-school-2019-2020.pdf

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Anonymous wrote:To my knowledge Law is the only profession where even 20 years out, one lawyer will ask another - where did you go to school? And they mean both undergrad and law. And I guess, hearing from legal friends, being able to say Cornell Yale is more prestigious than saying Wooster Yale.

Not true. Law school will always matter when you're applying for a new job (which is unlike some jobs where education kind of falls off the resume after a certain level of experience), but we don't go around asking each other where we went to undergrad, let alone judging on it.

Totally agree. It is absolutely not true that lawyers we are fixated decades out on undergrad schools. Law school only.

+2. We care about undergrad only for athletics.

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

Don't see Wooster on those lists.

The top pre-law grad from Wooster in 2021 is going to BC Law School https://wooster.edu/2021/05/05/wooster-names-jacob-abramo-2021-carpenter-prize-winner/

The 2020 one is going to Ohio State Law School.

2019 - Univ of Minn Law School

To answer your question, it will be challenging to get into a top law school from Wooster.

Allegheny College, the first one on Yale's list, is ranked lower than Wooster by USNWR. There are many other examples. If you're a superstar at a less selective college, Yale will want you.

I'll bet you they took one Allegheny College student in the entire five years.

how many do you think applied?

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

I never said it matters to law firms at all -- at law firms all that matters is the law school.

I also never said that Yale doesn't admit anyone who didn't attend a top college. I merely said it was "somewhat" of any exception. Yes, I'm aware of their published list for the last five years, but the list doesn't say how many students from each school was actually admitted and are attending. If you really have time, click on the Skadden website and read the bios of the Yale Law grads who work there. You'll see that the overwhelming majority went to elite colleges.

That list is about 180 schools. In five years, Yale had about 1000 students enroll. All this shows is that where you attend college is not a bar to entry, but without more data, it's impossible to say whether it is comparatively easier to get accepted at Yale if you're applying from certain schools rather than others. So you can't say that it doesn't matter.

Your last two sentences contradict each other, so I don't get your point. My point is that it DOES matter, at least "somewhat," at Yale. It's a small law school that is more selective than any in the country. The large majority of Yale Law students went to top colleges -- fact.

I think I probably would agree with you. You can get into Yale law from any undergraduate institution, but I think (not know) that it is easier to do some from a small group of colleges (certainly Yale undergrad). There is a difference between "can you do it" vs "how hard is it".

It's easier to do from Yale because there are way more ridiculously smart, hard-working, ambitious overachievers there than at less selective schools, not because Yale has a golden ticket they hand out to each graduate. A superstar is a superstar, regardless of where they get their education.

so, it's easier.

No, not for any one individual. My comment referred to it being natural that a place with more qualified applicants would yield more acceptances--I could have phrased that better. The same individual, though, would not have an easier time applying from Yale than from, say, Wesleyan or Connecticut College.

That’s pure speculation. All you reasonably know is that a greater percentage of the class is from Yale vs Wesleyan. Everything else is your off the cuff belief.

And your opinion is your off-he-cuff belief. I believe mine is more based in fact. It's not exactly the same thing, but take a look at Alan Krueger and Stacy Dale's study of lifetime income sometime. They've shown definitively that someone's earning capacity is not attributable to where they went to college. Those who don't go to a super-selective college but were of a similar caliber earn just as much as those who did attend the elite colleges. It seems likely, in my off-the-cuff opinion, that the same would apply to likelihood of success at Yale Law and that their admission team knows this.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

Don't see Wooster on those lists.

The top pre-law grad from Wooster in 2021 is going to BC Law School https://wooster.edu/2021/05/05/wooster-names-jacob-abramo-2021-carpenter-prize-winner/

The 2020 one is going to Ohio State Law School.

2019 - Univ of Minn Law School

To answer your question, it will be challenging to get into a top law school from Wooster.

Allegheny College, the first one on Yale's list, is ranked lower than Wooster by USNWR. There are many other examples. If you're a superstar at a less selective college, Yale will want you.

I'll bet you they took one Allegheny College student in the entire five years.

There are almost 3000 4-year colleges in the US, so of course it's unlikely they would take more than one from any given college that doesn't get first pick like Ivies and similar colleges do. There are many other colleges on that list, though, with similar rankings. The point is that those who could've succeeded at an elite college but ended up at not-so-selective College X for whatever reason do have just as good a shot at getting into Yale Law. There aren't anywhere near as many of these students at the less selective colleges, which is why you don't see as many getting in.

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Nice PR - or PC - work there.

You are going to have to explain why the SCOTUS justices don't come out of mediocre schools.

Clarence Thomas went to Holy Cross. Not mediocre, but not top tier either. Amy Coney Barrett went to Rhodes. In any event, it's only a recent thing where all of the justices went to fancy schools (even if you want to call Notre Dame fancy). In the 20th and 21st Centuries, one-third of Supreme Court justices did not attend top 25 law schools. Warren Burger, who Nixon selected as Chiel Justice and who served on the Court until 1986, went to the William Mitchell College of Law. Thurgood Marshall went to Howard. Lewis Powell went to Washington & Lee.

Next question?

Exactly. SCOTUS and POTUS choices have been influenced by USNWR! POTUS is chosen by us, and we are influenced by the rankings. SCOTUS is chosen by POTUS, who is very aware of we the people's biases.

My question is where did Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Jackson, Kagan and Sotomayor go for undergrad?

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Nice PR - or PC - work there.

You are going to have to explain why the SCOTUS justices don't come out of mediocre schools.

Clarence Thomas went to Holy Cross. Not mediocre, but not top tier either. Amy Coney Barrett went to Rhodes. In any event, it's only a recent thing where all of the justices went to fancy schools (even if you want to call Notre Dame fancy). In the 20th and 21st Centuries, one-third of Supreme Court justices did not attend top 25 law schools. Warren Burger, who Nixon selected as Chiel Justice and who served on the Court until 1986, went to the William Mitchell College of Law. Thurgood Marshall went to Howard. Lewis Powell went to Washington & Lee.

Next question?

Exactly. SCOTUS and POTUS choices have been influenced by USNWR! POTUS is chosen by us, and we are influenced by the rankings. SCOTUS is chosen by POTUS, who is very aware of we the people's biases.

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Nice PR - or PC - work there.

You are going to have to explain why the SCOTUS justices don't come out of mediocre schools.

Clarence Thomas went to Holy Cross. Not mediocre, but not top tier either. Amy Coney Barrett went to Rhodes. In any event, it's only a recent thing where all of the justices went to fancy schools (even if you want to call Notre Dame fancy). In the 20th and 21st Centuries, one-third of Supreme Court justices did not attend top 25 law schools. Warren Burger, who Nixon selected as Chiel Justice and who served on the Court until 1986, went to the William Mitchell College of Law. Thurgood Marshall went to Howard. Lewis Powell went to Washington & Lee.

Next question?

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Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

Don't see Wooster on those lists.

The top pre-law grad from Wooster in 2021 is going to BC Law School https://wooster.edu/2021/05/05/wooster-names-jacob-abramo-2021-carpenter-prize-winner/

The 2020 one is going to Ohio State Law School.

2019 - Univ of Minn Law School

To answer your question, it will be challenging to get into a top law school from Wooster.

Allegheny College, the first one on Yale's list, is ranked lower than Wooster by USNWR. There are many other examples. If you're a superstar at a less selective college, Yale will want you.

I'll bet you they took one Allegheny College student in the entire five years.

Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Nice PR - or PC - work there.

You are going to have to explain why the SCOTUS justices don't come out of mediocre schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Retired (praise Jesus) Biglaw (ugh) lawyer here

There is no way in hell that I'd recommend a kid or family going into debt to attend Bates over Wooster to increase the chance of T14 admissions. In fact, I wouldn't recommend going into debt to attend any college with the goal of goal to law school. No way.

Law school admissions are based almost entirely on GPA and LSAT, even at the so-called T14 level. Yale might be somewhat of an exception, because it's so small and so selective, but I wouldn't select a college based on the probability of getting admitted to Yale Law.

Interesting that you mention Yale, because they actually share the undergraduate schools of their law students:

https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

Apparently it doesn't matter much there, as well.

The site below also shows where recent hires at Skadden Arps went for undergrad:

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

Doesn't appear to matter to top law firms, either.

I never said it matters to law firms at all -- at law firms all that matters is the law school.

I also never said that Yale doesn't admit anyone who didn't attend a top college. I merely said it was "somewhat" of any exception. Yes, I'm aware of their published list for the last five years, but the list doesn't say how many students from each school was actually admitted and are attending. If you really have time, click on the Skadden website and read the bios of the Yale Law grads who work there. You'll see that the overwhelming majority went to elite colleges.

That list is about 180 schools. In five years, Yale had about 1000 students enroll. All this shows is that where you attend college is not a bar to entry, but without more data, it's impossible to say whether it is comparatively easier to get accepted at Yale if you're applying from certain schools rather than others. So you can't say that it doesn't matter.

Your last two sentences contradict each other, so I don't get your point. My point is that it DOES matter, at least "somewhat," at Yale. It's a small law school that is more selective than any in the country. The large majority of Yale Law students went to top colleges -- fact.

I think I probably would agree with you. You can get into Yale law from any undergraduate institution, but I think (not know) that it is easier to do some from a small group of colleges (certainly Yale undergrad). There is a difference between "can you do it" vs "how hard is it".

It's easier to do from Yale because there are way more ridiculously smart, hard-working, ambitious overachievers there than at less selective schools, not because Yale has a golden ticket they hand out to each graduate. A superstar is a superstar, regardless of where they get their education.

so, it's easier.

No, not for any one individual. My comment referred to it being natural that a place with more qualified applicants would yield more acceptances--I could have phrased that better. The same individual, though, would not have an easier time applying from Yale than from, say, Wesleyan or Connecticut College.

That’s pure speculation. All you reasonably know is that a greater percentage of the class is from Yale vs Wesleyan. Everything else is your off the cuff belief.