Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

Agree! This is what drives me batty about AAP/advanced math...it's not advanced, it's just accelerated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's any harm in supplementing your kids' education, but I think pushing algebra arbitrarily early is silly. Make sure you kids have the foundations of math deeply ingrained. Very few kids that young understand them...partially because of where they developmentally.

-- STEM PhD

Agree!

For that reason I held off signing my kid up for AoPS Algebra until they were 10.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's any harm in supplementing your kids' education, but I think pushing algebra arbitrarily early is silly. Make sure you kids have the foundations of math deeply ingrained. Very few kids that young understand them...partially because of where they developmentally.

-- STEM PhD

Agree!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

+1 Acceleration is leading to worse math understanding rather than better. There are two trends I'm seeing in math education--one is acceleration--doing the same stuff to the same depth only faster. The other is broadening the range of math--adding in statistics/probability and more real-world applications earlier. The latter isn't 'bad' to me, but it's not doing what I think is most important which is building more solid, flexible math understanding by doing harder pre-algebra problems in elementary school. I would like kids to enter into 8th grade algebra with a rock solid number sense and operational fluency and a sense of confidence about numbers and how and when to use them.

Anonymous wrote:You know what is hilarious here?

Pushing kids athletically vs pushing kids academically are the same thing.

Also- kids can do both.

I think that blows peoples minds a bit but wow. Most of mom friends with teen athletes tell me that their kids are also incredibly smart.

Pushing is still pushing. And the kids will still love their parents as long as there is down time and kindness.

Depends on the kid. With some kids, you can push with love and kindness and still hurt your child. They probably will still love you but it’ll be a big topic in therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

I always thought that part of the issue was the people teaching elementary math are typically not math people. Now don't get me wrong, my mom taught ES for 25 years. I knew many of the teachers both as a child and as an adult. They were dedicated and caring professionals, but I doubt many ever considered why division by zero doesn't work or pondered different infinities. There are many interesting problems they never touch on, and although AoPS is an improvement for some kids, I don't think that's a solution for the majority. Perhaps, drawing on AoPS rigor to a point but adding more math games would help. I did both with my kids but I'm hardly an educator. I think the other issue is the current approach is basically one size fits all. Maybe if there were a way to have smaller groupings, but then people complain that's tracking.

This is what I thought too until I homeschooled. The problem could be solved by just doing Singapore math. It’s extremely easy to understand and then teach. Like, now I know why, if you’re dividing fractions, you flip the numerator and denominator of the divisor (is it the divisor? I guess I don’t remember that last) and multiply. And I know why long division works.

Another problem is outsourcing multiplication drills to apps that kids are just supposed to do without supervision. Not all kids do it and then they are stuck struggling with math facts when also trying to do long division. Really annoying.

What one person thinks is pushing another person sees as normal. DS started AoPS in third grade because the virtual learning was a joke and he was bored with math. He really liked AoPS and was interested in continuing in fourth. We moved to RSM because it was closer to home. He enjoys the class and asked to continue in fifth grade. I don't see that as pushing, I see it as supporting. I am sure our friends see us as pushing our kid because very few people in our circle enroll their kids in programs like AoPS or RSM. DS mentioned that he has a classmate who is in AoPS but that he doesn't know too many kids doing those programs. I know a few families who use mathnasium but they use it to stay on grade level and help their kids who are struggling.

We allow him to choose his extra curriculars with one rule, he has to choose a rec sport each season because we want him to be getting some more exercise. He enjoys the sports he chooses (baseball, soccer, basketball mainly) and asked to play in a summer basketball league. His teams are rarely great but they move a lot and he enjoys himself. We offered music lessons and DS said he wasn't interested. He has been enjoying strings at school.

Parents should know their kids well enough to know what kids can handle while remaining engaged and well balanced. I would guess that there are some kids who are doing more then the kid would like and I would guess that there are some kids who would be happy to do more. I have no clue what works for other families so I focus on my child.

He will probably do some type of SAT prep but that is about all I see in his future for prep classes for tests. His RSM class covers material in a more in depth manner and at a faster pace then his FCPS classes do, I believe that will help him on the IAAT next year because I think he will have been exposed to the concepts and will have spent more time working on understanding them. He enjoys math competitions and that will help him with completing the IAAT in time while not feeling rushed. It is not like there is no overlap and we would be lying to say that there is not a cross over effect.

You know what is hilarious here?

Pushing kids athletically vs pushing kids academically are the same thing.

Also- kids can do both.

I think that blows peoples minds a bit but wow. Most of mom friends with teen athletes tell me that their kids are also incredibly smart.

Pushing is still pushing. And the kids will still love their parents as long as there is down time and kindness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

AoPS buffers the Algebra -> Geometry -> Algebra II -> PreCalc progression by inserting two number theory courses and two Counting&Probability courses. I wish most school systems followed this pattern, since there's no point in having a kid finish Calculus in 10th grade, but know almost nothing about two major branches of mathematics. Yeah, I know FCPS touches on probability a little in its courses, but it's not even slightly comparable to the AoPS classes. Algebra in 6th or 7th makes sense for the smart kids, but there's no reason that the Algebra through Calc sequence needs to be compressed to 5 years and needs to omit so many significant math branches.

The main reason so many schools hyper accelerate is that it's the easiest way to handle advanced learners. The school system could gather more challenging curricula and attempt to differentiate for the top learners, or they could simply bump them up to the next grade without having to do much of anything else. They're choosing the easiest path rather than the best path.

That is a great approach. My kid goes to a rigorous private school (not in DC) and they handle advanced learners through depth rather than acceleration. Honors Calc is the highest class they offer (they do not offer APs because they do not believe in classes just to prep for a test, although many kids take the tests in their own and do well). The honors calc class is tough. My daughter had a PhD in Physics tutoring her and he noted how it was much more in depth and difficult than our local high school’s AP Calc classes (he tutored kids there, too, so could compare). There are ways to challenge advanced learners without just speeding everything up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

I always thought that part of the issue was the people teaching elementary math are typically not math people. Now don't get me wrong, my mom taught ES for 25 years. I knew many of the teachers both as a child and as an adult. They were dedicated and caring professionals, but I doubt many ever considered why division by zero doesn't work or pondered different infinities. There are many interesting problems they never touch on, and although AoPS is an improvement for some kids, I don't think that's a solution for the majority. Perhaps, drawing on AoPS rigor to a point but adding more math games would help. I did both with my kids but I'm hardly an educator. I think the other issue is the current approach is basically one size fits all. Maybe if there were a way to have smaller groupings, but then people complain that's tracking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

AoPS buffers the Algebra -> Geometry -> Algebra II -> PreCalc progression by inserting two number theory courses and two Counting&Probability courses. I wish most school systems followed this pattern, since there's no point in having a kid finish Calculus in 10th grade, but know almost nothing about two major branches of mathematics. Yeah, I know FCPS touches on probability a little in its courses, but it's not even slightly comparable to the AoPS classes. Algebra in 6th or 7th makes sense for the smart kids, but there's no reason that the Algebra through Calc sequence needs to be compressed to 5 years and needs to omit so many significant math branches.

The main reason so many schools hyper accelerate is that it's the easiest way to handle advanced learners. The school system could gather more challenging curricula and attempt to differentiate for the top learners, or they could simply bump them up to the next grade without having to do much of anything else. They're choosing the easiest path rather than the best path.

It takes practice for kids to learn that they unlock potential when they work hard, that it takes time to become good at something, that you may find you like something if you don’t give up immediately. Parents who are fine with pushing kids in travel sports look down on those who push kids academically. People can really get better at anything with hard work. It’s a lesson worth learning even if your child isn’t very athletic.

I agree with this. School comes easy to my kid so I do look for ways to have her work at something. Piano is one place where I push sometimes. Is it because I want her to win awards? No. She's not even close to being on that track. I just want her to pick a hard section in her lesson that week and work on it until it improves. Don't give up when it isn't perfect the first time. Working at something that doesn't come easily is a skill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! I agree to an extent except I think algebra in 7th is the stupidest trend.

Sounds like the rhetoric of an underachiever.

I have a STEM PhD from an elite school and agree with this. Elementary math is too easy. But it doesn't need more acceleration, it needs more hard problems that force kids to conceptualize the math. More depth, not more speed.

There's no reason kids can't take Algebra in 8th and still finish Calc BC by senior year. That's plenty to major in STEM in college. I actually think it's better to take the next math classes (e.g., Diff Eq and Linear Algebra) when you're taking them at the same time as science or engineering classes that use that math. It's more immersive and provides better context.

Anonymous wrote:I've got to admit that I occasionally find myself wondering if Amy Chua's oldest daughter still plays the piano -- you know for fun and enjoyment. It appears that the way she was pushed she could easily find the whole thing rather traumatizing and something that she avoids as an adult. I would love for a reporter to ask her if she still plays the piano for fun.

Now that would be an interesting read. A follow-up on her mom's opus 20 years later and its impact on her life both good and bad. Maybe even discuss how her mom could've achieved her goals with less trauma.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the proud tiger parents, may I ask: do you enjoy parenting and how do you do it without screaming and fighting with your kids? Also how do you push without shaming them sand telling them that they are stupid and embarrassing your family? I was pushed and have very few happy childhood memories. Is there a way to get results without making everyone miserable including yourself?

Did you get this impression in movies? That’s the art not reality talking about something happened with uneducated parents in old days. There were such parents but I don’t think that is the mainstream even in old days. Have you really heard any parents around you saying something like “you are stupid and embarrassing your family”? Or did your kid tell you that his friends are suffering with this pressure with their parents?
How come you cannot realize that other kids did better because they are self-motivated and their parents provided enough encourage and support, not because of the imagination on “pushing”. Or you just have to rely on this thought to make you feel better that other kids did better but they suffered with tiger parents?
I really don’t think any kid can be pushed to become an award winner.

Yes. I do (NP here). My DD’s friend was told she shamed the family because she did not get into Algebra in 7th. They went out to celebrate her brother’s report card with ice cream and she did not get any. Fairfax County circa 2015.