Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never picked up the rope. My husband was always in charge of his parents. I’m pretty sure they haven’t received but one or two Christmas gifts in the last 17 years. Oh well. Not my problem.

I also never picked up the rope. My DH does remember cards, flowers, gifts, birthdays, etc., for both his parents and his sister and her family. He does work with his parents and sister to plan visits and holidays and vacations, and we see my ILs about the same as my family.

The one thing my husband doesn't do to his family's satisfaction is call or FT with the kids. MIL and FIL have wheedled me about this, but I told FIL to his face that I am not DH's secretary, and if they want the son they raised to call more, they should ask him directly. But they don't ask directly, they just whine and guilt trip like "oh, we thought you forgot our phone number, what a nice surprise that you called," and DH doesn't fall for that. The last time MIL whined to me about it, I told her what I sometimes say to my own parents: "The phone rings both ways." Both my parents and my ILs act like kids must initiate the call or OMG abandonment, and I don't play that game. I call my parents once or twice a week, regularly, but if I forget a week they just don't call me and try to guilt trip. Nope! The phone rings both ways: if I don't call you and you want to talk? Call.

np The only thing I would add is you are busier than they are and they probably don't want to call you if you are in the middle of work/making dinner/going to ballet/soccer camp etc. Also, why I agree the son should take the lead I also think that it is sad that there is such a division with "his" and "her" family. When you marry you should consider both sides "family" and figure out a way to include and be involved.

... except that no one is saying this to men - only to women. How often do men initiate social events with their ILs, send gifts or cards, etc.?

~Mother of two sons

Few, if any, men have any interest in spending time with our IL’s. It’s a chore that we sometimes do, but if we never had to do it again, we’d be thrilled.

And, I agree that it’s unfair that women seem to have societal pressure to maintain a relationship with parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

you called a woman more than once

Yes, the sister-in-law whom I love, I have called more than once.
She was been my SIL for 20 years and I have called her more than once.

If you called her more than once to ask how she is, chat, say happy birthday, that's great.

If you hounded her about logistics again and again after she sent you a clear message that she would hand the phone to her husband or have her call you back to discuss, then you were part of the problem! And for some reason you can't admit it. You obviously got her intent--I don't handle my husband's family logistics--but you apparently kept after her about it.

+100

PP, take a hint. She's telling you to call your brother about this stuff. Stop calling her and start calling him.

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

I have 3 sons and have told them over and over that it isn't and shouldn't be their wives (once they're married-they're 25, 21, and 18 now) responsibility to make the effort with DH and me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny how husbands make it wives’ responsibility to maintain relationships with their parents.

It's funny that grown adult women ever fall for it. If my boyfriend/fiance had ever tried that crap with me, I wouldn't have married him. If my husband told me I was responsible for that stuff I would laugh in his face.

Some women are conditioned by their own family and do this even if their boyfriend/fiance has no expectation and never says anything. My mom definitely tried to condition me to do this stuff. When I got married she was always asking if I was doing this or that for my DHs family (are you arranging visits with them? are you remembering their birthdays and anniversaries? this is part of your job now, you know). By the time I got married I was onto this con but I think a lot of women are raised that this is "polite" and "good manners" and that it's their job. And they only start to question it after years, and often after they become moms themselves, and start to realize who unequal these expectations are.

When I was growing up, my mom also expected me to take 100% responsibility for my relationship with my father. He was unkind to me my entire childhood, would say rude things about my appearance or my grades (I got great grades, by the way, but he'd make a comment on an A- or criticize me if I didn't win a class award that only went to one student in class). He'd also pick fights with me about politics. My mom was constantly advising me to simply "let him have his way." To be polite and gracious with him so that he could feel important and right. She didn't care if I felt important or like my opinion mattered. It was all in service to his ego and whims.

So of course this also extends to ILs. My mom thinks I owe my DH and his family something, like I need to apologize for my existence or make up for my inherent pointlessness by serving them.

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

You’ve summarized it all perfectly PP. How did you eventually realize that this is how it was for you (and many other women?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is patriarchy, and women have ALWAYS been complicit in it. It's men, it's women, it's everyone upholding a system in which women work for others, whether it's men or their elders or their children. The whole concept of "feminine labor" (cooking, cleaning, childcare, hostessing, maintaining relationships) is premised on the idea that women need to pay our way through life by taking care of everyone else. It's premised on the idea that we are not enough just as we are, before we've done anything for anyone. Which is how men get to go through the world. Can you imagine?

Yes, exactly.

+2 I know this is just an excerpt from a longer post but this part really resonated with me. My mother was definitely complicit in this and my ILs also had these expectations. It didn't help that DH's sister (who is fabulous and I love) does ALL of these things. She likes doing some of it but not to the extent DH's side of the family expect of her. I've been quite the black sheep because I recognized early on that they expected me to follow suit and I didn't.

We were deployed when we started dating so I had no contact with my now ILs for the first 2 years of our relationship. The first Christmas we were back, I soon realized his mother had always purchased Christmas gifts on his behalf and I was now expected to do so. I gave now-DH some choices: he could identify and make the gift purchases; he could do nothing or we could make a donation in their name to their favorite charity. He chose the charity route. Every since, I have been the 'bad' woman who refuses to meet their expectations. We've been married 25 years and it's only been since the death of my ILs and their similar-age relatives that I've actually been welcomed to family events. It's not been pleasant but I'm SO very glad I never picked up the rope.

Anonymous wrote:

you called a woman more than once

Yes, the sister-in-law whom I love, I have called more than once.
She was been my SIL for 20 years and I have called her more than once.

If you called her more than once to ask how she is, chat, say happy birthday, that's great.

If you hounded her about logistics again and again after she sent you a clear message that she would hand the phone to her husband or have her call you back to discuss, then you were part of the problem! And for some reason you can't admit it. You obviously got her intent--I don't handle my husband's family logistics--but you apparently kept after her about it.

you called a woman more than once

Yes, the sister-in-law whom I love, I have called more than once.
She was been my SIL for 20 years and I have called her more than once.

Anonymous wrote:pp again. omg ... Can you just stop?
I said I respect her. I said I'd encourage how she does it.
Geezzz!! you really look to criticize every little thing, don't you?

I mean, you're the one denying that you called a woman more than once when you should have been calling her husband. If you can't admit that you were part of the problem but have since shifted your approach, what is the point? If women can't admit they've been part of the problem, we won't find many solutions.

In a life-long relationship, yes there are reasons we talk --- more than a few times.

pp again. omg ... Can you just stop?
I said I respect her. I said I'd encourage how she does it.
Geezzz!! you really look to criticize every little thing, don't you?

Anonymous wrote:What 3 times?? who said 3 times? I'm the pp
I have three sister-in-laws.
Not describing a single event. GEEZ

Here's what you said:
"One SIL, if you call and ask about plans, will hand the phone to my brother. Every time. Or he has to call back. She will not speak for "them" if it involves his family. And she does like us, as far as I know. There are plenty of times when it would have been faster, less difficult, if she could have just given an answer. "

Explain to me how you didn't just describe that, over and over, you tried to contact her for plans even after it was clear she would not do anything other than hand the phone to her husband or have him call you back. You literally described a repeating scenario.

Anonymous wrote:In July of 2021, after being blamed of prioritizing my parents over her by my MIL to DH, I dropped the rope.

I can count on one hand the number of times DH has visited with our children over the past year.

We haven’t had a single visit as a family, because I haven’t planned it or encouraged he plan it.

Not a single dinner. Not one gift. No cards. No flowers. Because I haven’t purchased them.

I’m not even sure the last time he spoke to her, because I haven’t encouraged him to.

I wonder if deep down she realizes, even though she’d never admit it.

Ladies, do yourself a favor if you haven’t already and put the rope down. It’s heavy and you don’t need to carry it by yourself.

Needed this. My ILs live locally. MIL is EXTREMELY needy. I think there are marriage issues. My husband has a really busy work schedule (I'm solidly 9-5), we have a 1 year old. He flat out told me, "I need your help making sure my parents see Larlo." I tried last fall but MIL is so anxious, and would spiral out about whatever drama was going on in her life whenever we'd spend time together. She's a very anxious person. I tried inviting her to see our son to babysit at our house, to go out to do errands, she never showed up on time or canceled last minute/got confused on timing. Very unreliable and doesn't keep a schedule.

Finally, most recently with daycare COVID closures, she took it upon herself to dispel wisdom such as how "greedy" I am to try and work and raise a child and that "women can't in fact have it all, so you need to let me be more involved, you clearly can't do this on your own." and suggested I stop working because it was "sad" how little time we spend with our son. DH is unavailable, so I have come to realize I think she was trying to break me down and beg her for her help.

I dropped the rope 100%. Told my husband interactions with his family were on him and that I would not be spending time with MIL if this was how she was going to speak to me. I have not made a plan with her once since this winter (I used to feel guilty that DH wouldn't see her very often, so I used to at least try), and it feels DAMN good. I think my biggest anxiety was that it was just "wrong" to let too much time pass w/o seeing the ILs. However, if DH isn't making it a priority, there's no reason for me to do so. I work hard and I'm not spending my hard-earned weekend relaxation time with someone who is going to treat me rudely nor be enjoyable to spend time around.

DH's sched still hasn't gotten better. He's asked if I "can help him set up time with his parents" to see our son and I put it squarely back on him. I say, "Send a text, make a plan, and you're all set." and I think it's because he doesn't want to deal with their flakiness either. Sometimes there's a reason they just "can't find time."

I feel like a little big of a jerk, but I just don't care anymore. If they wanted their son to value time/relationship with them, even if I don't agree with his behavior (I'm very close to my own parents and call them all the time), that's on them to have taught him the importance of family. And it's on him if he's not making the plan. I'm not the one who needs to make it better for him/his parents. MIL still tries to come to me for family plans, I simply say, "DH knows his schedule best, so I recommend reaching out to him." DH's sister even reaches out to me to set up calls with DH and I say the same.

Rant over... but it feels good to know someone else has let all this time pass and put the onus on DH. It's about freaking time. And part of me thinks my husband is just being an a-hole... but I'm convinced he doesn't really want to deal with some of their behavior either.

What 3 times?? who said 3 times? I'm the pp
I have three sister-in-laws.
Not describing a single event. GEEZ

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 SILs so it is interesting seeing the differences. One SIL, if you call and ask about plans, will hand the phone to my brother. Every time. Or he has to call back. She will not speak for "them" if it involves his family. And she does like us, as far as I know. There are plenty of times when it would have been faster, less difficult, if she could have just given an answer. But I repect her. I respect her for how she handles things. Frustrated sometimes but respect her. And I know that's how it's going to be. Given the chance to say, I'd encourage this route.

Let me get this straight: after, say, three times of you contacting her to make plans and she hands the phone to her husband or has him call you back, you...still kept doing this? On what planet would "it be faster, less difficult, if she could have just given an answer." How about IT WOULD BE FASTER AND LESS DIFFICULT IF YOU STOPPED BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE?

I have 3 SILs so it is interesting seeing the differences. One SIL, if you call and ask about plans, will hand the phone to my brother. Every time. Or he has to call back. She will not speak for "them" if it involves his family. And she does like us, as far as I know. There are plenty of times when it would have been faster, less difficult, if she could have just given an answer. But I repect her. I respect her for how she handles things. Frustrated sometimes but respect her. And I know that's how it's going to be. Given the chance to say, I'd encourage this route.