Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As a BW who reconciled I'd just say that I don't think it's as cut and dried as "staying = enabling" and "leaving = consequences." In a deeply intimate relationship (that's the goal, right?) there's no way to stay with a partner that you've harmed without facing their pain. Every relationship is different, but I know in my relationship, my DH had to put a lot more mental and emotional energy into analyzing himself and changing than he would have if we'd divorced. Even if he were a person without empathy who didn't hurt when faced with my pain, he still had to go through all that time listening to me, thinking about my triggers, giving up most of his social life (which he reintroduced slowly and mindfully), reorganizing the power dynamics in our marriage, time in therapy, etc.

I agree that sweeping infidelity under the rug is bound to bite you sooner or later. Even if cheating doesn't recur, other selfish and harmful behavior no doubt will. But if you've tried to repair the relationship with an eye to restorative justice then it likely wasn't some fun and easy time for the WS.

The problem is that most cheaters ARE without empathy and can't tolerate listening to their partner, don't think about their triggers and are unwilling to give up their social life and participate actively in therapy. Your spouse is the exception to cheating.

PP here. Yes, I agree, I think empathy is a spectrum, dysfunction is a spectrum. If you are cheating, you are very likely to be low in empathy, high in dysfunction. It's important for people reconciling to understand that a WS needs to have both a motivation and a capacity for change. Cheating aside, relationships are tricky because we're only one half of the equation, right? We can never guarantee that our partner will respond to all of life in a healthy way. We can only work on our part and have solid boundaries and expectations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As someone who has come *this* close to crossing the line (but did not), and also someone who is very much against cheating and deception, all I can say is that it can feel like a very bad drug trip. I never understood how people could commit suicide before I felt the pull to cheat. I had to write a cringe-worthy email to the other person asking them to help me not cross the line by creating distance. They did, thankfully, and I think it was a big relief to us both as we are both married. To this day, if they made a move, I am not sure I could stay faithful. I have had crushes that one can manage before, but sometimes, it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. My spouse is absolutely amazing, btw, so this has nothing to do with me missing something in my marriage. It was also not a case of "rationalization." I never justified these thoughts or feelings by any means. All I thought is, if this happens, and my spouse finds out, I will deserve whatever is wrath comes my way. And I felt terrible. Thankfully, it is now in the past and nothing did happen. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I mean that people rationalize their "out of body experience" to their spouse on why they cheat. Not that they spend a lot of time contemplating it.

I had that with my spouse in spades for many years. Kids/work made the relationship more businesslike and the side piece was exciting, forbidden—but I never had that all encompassing thing I had with my wife. I could go weeks without contact and meeting up with AP and put it out of my mind, but when I first met my wife we couldn’t be apart at all—the attraction and pull was that deep. We spent hours on the phone and would fly thousands of miles for just 24 hours together and back, etc.

Not all infidelity is some all-consuming thing. Sometimes it really is just a way to escape, blow off steam for an hour.

I think for men it is often just variety/blowing off steam. For women who never had good sex stuck in a boring marriage it’s easy to develop feelings and think it is some deep connection on a new level. It’s rare in these things there is equal emotional investment which is why nothing ever comes out of them 99% of the time once the newness wears off. But, a married cheater (M or F) is missing an empathy chip.

Interesting take on empathy. I often get told I have a lot of empathy (by friends, people who both do and don't know my cheating history), but it is all an act, and I try to tell people but they don't believe me. I don't feel good at it, it is something I work at. but saying I'm missing an empathy chip feels right. I am deficient.

You are deficient. No empathy and a dishonest liar. Why do you cheat so gdamn much? Gross.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to understand why any spouse would stay after infidelity. I don't see how you repair that.

I used to think this and now I believe that I’d stay. DD is severely depressed and has severe anxiety and has mentioned on more than one occasion how grateful she is that her parents aren’t divorced and how hard it would be on her. Once my husband joked about divorcing me (it was 100% a joke and really quite funny) and DD overheard and freaked out.

So I wouldn’t divorce because I’d be terrified of what she would do. But I think I’d declare the marriage open, never sleep with him again, stop anything emotionally intimate, etc. I wouldn’t try to repair the marriage, I’d just be roommates. And probably divorce at some point.

My grandmother did this for decades. She only told her children after my grandfather died. They slept in the same room on separate beds, and everyone assumed it was because my grandfather had a bad back and needed a firmer mattress.

She was tired of his cheating and stopped sleeping with him He kept cheating and she probably never had sex for decades( I am assuming. Noone has ever asked her).

The children were happy and did not uspect a thing. She and my grandfather combined income and otherwise behaved like a close married couple until he died in his 80s. She lived her husband and taking sex out of the equation took the stress out of it too.

This is the way to do it if your spouse keeps cheating and you want to stay. Making peace with the sex part of the marriage. Otherwise it will eat you up.

That sounds awful. He got his jollies and she was stuck unfulfilled? What a miserable life. I doubt he loved her the way she loved him. Sad.

Granddaughter here.

It doesn't sound any more awful than splitting time with my children. And I say this as someone with an incredibly high libido.

Sex is great, but I can live a full life without it. Now, it will be hard for me to sleep in the same room with my DH and not start something. Lol

My grandmother has a full, exciting life, and she has always had it. She had her business, church, girlfriends, family that loved and supported her etc. She had my grandfather in most of the ways that counted. They made a good team and raised some incredible children. Living separately would have interfered with the way they wanted to raise their children. For example, my grandfather had his children at the table studying and discussing whst they learned every single night from 7pm- 9pm. That is one of the things they remember moat fondly from their childhood. Living separately would have made that difficult. They lived in a prime location that neither could afford without combining incomes ( even though my grandmother made very little).

Her life may not have been perfect, but it was never sad. She is a very happy person.

And funny enough she appeared in charge of the relationship when he was alive. He listened to everything she said( except for seeing other women i guess). She made pretty much all the decisions. Maybe he was guilty or maybe he thought he could get back in her pants. Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As someone who has come *this* close to crossing the line (but did not), and also someone who is very much against cheating and deception, all I can say is that it can feel like a very bad drug trip. I never understood how people could commit suicide before I felt the pull to cheat. I had to write a cringe-worthy email to the other person asking them to help me not cross the line by creating distance. They did, thankfully, and I think it was a big relief to us both as we are both married. To this day, if they made a move, I am not sure I could stay faithful. I have had crushes that one can manage before, but sometimes, it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. My spouse is absolutely amazing, btw, so this has nothing to do with me missing something in my marriage. It was also not a case of "rationalization." I never justified these thoughts or feelings by any means. All I thought is, if this happens, and my spouse finds out, I will deserve whatever is wrath comes my way. And I felt terrible. Thankfully, it is now in the past and nothing did happen. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I mean that people rationalize their "out of body experience" to their spouse on why they cheat. Not that they spend a lot of time contemplating it.

I had that with my spouse in spades for many years. Kids/work made the relationship more businesslike and the side piece was exciting, forbidden—but I never had that all encompassing thing I had with my wife. I could go weeks without contact and meeting up with AP and put it out of my mind, but when I first met my wife we couldn’t be apart at all—the attraction and pull was that deep. We spent hours on the phone and would fly thousands of miles for just 24 hours together and back, etc.

Not all infidelity is some all-consuming thing. Sometimes it really is just a way to escape, blow off steam for an hour.

I think for men it is often just variety/blowing off steam. For women who never had good sex stuck in a boring marriage it’s easy to develop feelings and think it is some deep connection on a new level. It’s rare in these things there is equal emotional investment which is why nothing ever comes out of them 99% of the time once the newness wears off. But, a married cheater (M or F) is missing an empathy chip.

Interesting take on empathy. I often get told I have a lot of empathy (by friends, people who both do and don't know my cheating history), but it is all an act, and I try to tell people but they don't believe me. I don't feel good at it, it is something I work at. but saying I'm missing an empathy chip feels right. I am deficient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As someone who has come *this* close to crossing the line (but did not), and also someone who is very much against cheating and deception, all I can say is that it can feel like a very bad drug trip. I never understood how people could commit suicide before I felt the pull to cheat. I had to write a cringe-worthy email to the other person asking them to help me not cross the line by creating distance. They did, thankfully, and I think it was a big relief to us both as we are both married. To this day, if they made a move, I am not sure I could stay faithful. I have had crushes that one can manage before, but sometimes, it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. My spouse is absolutely amazing, btw, so this has nothing to do with me missing something in my marriage. It was also not a case of "rationalization." I never justified these thoughts or feelings by any means. All I thought is, if this happens, and my spouse finds out, I will deserve whatever is wrath comes my way. And I felt terrible. Thankfully, it is now in the past and nothing did happen. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I mean that people rationalize their "out of body experience" to their spouse on why they cheat. Not that they spend a lot of time contemplating it.

I had that with my spouse in spades for many years. Kids/work made the relationship more businesslike and the side piece was exciting, forbidden—but I never had that all encompassing thing I had with my wife. I could go weeks without contact and meeting up with AP and put it out of my mind, but when I first met my wife we couldn’t be apart at all—the attraction and pull was that deep. We spent hours on the phone and would fly thousands of miles for just 24 hours together and back, etc.

Not all infidelity is some all-consuming thing. Sometimes it really is just a way to escape, blow off steam for an hour.

I think for men it is often just variety/blowing off steam. For women who never had good sex stuck in a boring marriage it’s easy to develop feelings and think it is some deep connection on a new level. It’s rare in these things there is equal emotional investment which is why nothing ever comes out of them 99% of the time once the newness wears off. But, a married cheater (M or F) is missing an empathy chip.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: … it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I know what you mean, it’s irresistible pull, you cannot breathe in their presence, you’re not in control of your body, you can control your mind if staying away from them and wish you could run away … I have some theory about it
just curious, did you ever feel that way for your wife, that kind of attraction, like in the beginning maybe, in the dating phase, or never? I had that kind of emotion black-hole only for one person, others were not even close

NP, but no, never felt that "emotional black hole" for my spouse. There was one other person way back in the day who I was also enthralled with and did it for me, but we didn't last. My spouse (husband) was my rebound from that first "emotional black hole" of a relationship. And he was a good choice, kind, hardworking, loving. But woo. I eventually lost it and cheated because the emotional connection wasn't there for me. It was more of in intellectual connection with my spouse than emotional. Like an arranged marriage, arranged by me. But I loved that feeling of being lost in somebody else (for the old BF and then when I had an affair). It's like nothing else. I'd love to have that feeling again. I loved loving that fiercly and deeply. I know you probably think I could love my spouse that deeply and strongly ... but I don't. There is little emotional resonance between us.

So does your DH know about the affair? Was the AP married? What made you choose your DH?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to understand why any spouse would stay after infidelity. I don't see how you repair that.

I used to think this and now I believe that I’d stay. DD is severely depressed and has severe anxiety and has mentioned on more than one occasion how grateful she is that her parents aren’t divorced and how hard it would be on her. Once my husband joked about divorcing me (it was 100% a joke and really quite funny) and DD overheard and freaked out.

So I wouldn’t divorce because I’d be terrified of what she would do. But I think I’d declare the marriage open, never sleep with him again, stop anything emotionally intimate, etc. I wouldn’t try to repair the marriage, I’d just be roommates. And probably divorce at some point.

My grandmother did this for decades. She only told her children after my grandfather died. They slept in the same room on separate beds, and everyone assumed it was because my grandfather had a bad back and needed a firmer mattress.

She was tired of his cheating and stopped sleeping with him He kept cheating and she probably never had sex for decades( I am assuming. Noone has ever asked her).

The children were happy and did not uspect a thing. She and my grandfather combined income and otherwise behaved like a close married couple until he died in his 80s. She lived her husband and taking sex out of the equation took the stress out of it too.

This is the way to do it if your spouse keeps cheating and you want to stay. Making peace with the sex part of the marriage. Otherwise it will eat you up.

That sounds awful. He got his jollies and she was stuck unfulfilled? What a miserable life. I doubt he loved her the way she loved him. Sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As someone who has come *this* close to crossing the line (but did not), and also someone who is very much against cheating and deception, all I can say is that it can feel like a very bad drug trip. I never understood how people could commit suicide before I felt the pull to cheat. I had to write a cringe-worthy email to the other person asking them to help me not cross the line by creating distance. They did, thankfully, and I think it was a big relief to us both as we are both married. To this day, if they made a move, I am not sure I could stay faithful. I have had crushes that one can manage before, but sometimes, it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. My spouse is absolutely amazing, btw, so this has nothing to do with me missing something in my marriage. It was also not a case of "rationalization." I never justified these thoughts or feelings by any means. All I thought is, if this happens, and my spouse finds out, I will deserve whatever is wrath comes my way. And I felt terrible. Thankfully, it is now in the past and nothing did happen. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I mean that people rationalize their "out of body experience" to their spouse on why they cheat. Not that they spend a lot of time contemplating it.

I had that with my spouse in spades for many years. Kids/work made the relationship more businesslike and the side piece was exciting, forbidden—but I never had that all encompassing thing I had with my wife. I could go weeks without contact and meeting up with AP and put it out of my mind, but when I first met my wife we couldn’t be apart at all—the attraction and pull was that deep. We spent hours on the phone and would fly thousands of miles for just 24 hours together and back, etc.

Not all infidelity is some all-consuming thing. Sometimes it really is just a way to escape, blow off steam for an hour.

Anonymous wrote:I guess I was never an idealist who thought "this could never happen to me" so it wasn't a total shock that my attractive, wealthy DH strayed. It wasn't a deep profession of love long-term affair. It takes time to heal and I suppose I will never fully trust him but I would never fully trust any man. Men are men. The devil you know. And I am not giving up my house, full-time access to kids, financial stability because he filled some stupid urge with another woman.

+1
This is me but my husband could definitely earn more money. And he's actually not classically attractive. And he's a real jerk.

But I assume I will be cheated on by anyone/everyone. I'd be more shocked to find out I'd been in a long-term faithfully monogamous relationship.

Exactly. They have communication and empathy issues. Otherwise they would have communicated their own feelings better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As a BW who reconciled I'd just say that I don't think it's as cut and dried as "staying = enabling" and "leaving = consequences." In a deeply intimate relationship (that's the goal, right?) there's no way to stay with a partner that you've harmed without facing their pain. Every relationship is different, but I know in my relationship, my DH had to put a lot more mental and emotional energy into analyzing himself and changing than he would have if we'd divorced. Even if he were a person without empathy who didn't hurt when faced with my pain, he still had to go through all that time listening to me, thinking about my triggers, giving up most of his social life (which he reintroduced slowly and mindfully), reorganizing the power dynamics in our marriage, time in therapy, etc.

I agree that sweeping infidelity under the rug is bound to bite you sooner or later. Even if cheating doesn't recur, other selfish and harmful behavior no doubt will. But if you've tried to repair the relationship with an eye to restorative justice then it likely wasn't some fun and easy time for the WS.

The problem is that most cheaters ARE without empathy and can't tolerate listening to their partner, don't think about their triggers and are unwilling to give up their social life and participate actively in therapy. Your spouse is the exception to cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As someone who has come *this* close to crossing the line (but did not), and also someone who is very much against cheating and deception, all I can say is that it can feel like a very bad drug trip. I never understood how people could commit suicide before I felt the pull to cheat. I had to write a cringe-worthy email to the other person asking them to help me not cross the line by creating distance. They did, thankfully, and I think it was a big relief to us both as we are both married. To this day, if they made a move, I am not sure I could stay faithful. I have had crushes that one can manage before, but sometimes, it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. My spouse is absolutely amazing, btw, so this has nothing to do with me missing something in my marriage. It was also not a case of "rationalization." I never justified these thoughts or feelings by any means. All I thought is, if this happens, and my spouse finds out, I will deserve whatever is wrath comes my way. And I felt terrible. Thankfully, it is now in the past and nothing did happen. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I mean that people rationalize their "out of body experience" to their spouse on why they cheat. Not that they spend a lot of time contemplating it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: … it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I know what you mean, it’s irresistible pull, you cannot breathe in their presence, you’re not in control of your body, you can control your mind if staying away from them and wish you could run away … I have some theory about it
just curious, did you ever feel that way for your wife, that kind of attraction, like in the beginning maybe, in the dating phase, or never? I had that kind of emotion black-hole only for one person, others were not even close

NP, but no, never felt that "emotional black hole" for my spouse. There was one other person way back in the day who I was also enthralled with and did it for me, but we didn't last. My spouse (husband) was my rebound from that first "emotional black hole" of a relationship. And he was a good choice, kind, hardworking, loving. But woo. I eventually lost it and cheated because the emotional connection wasn't there for me. It was more of in intellectual connection with my spouse than emotional. Like an arranged marriage, arranged by me. But I loved that feeling of being lost in somebody else (for the old BF and then when I had an affair). It's like nothing else. I'd love to have that feeling again. I loved loving that fiercly and deeply. I know you probably think I could love my spouse that deeply and strongly ... but I don't. There is little emotional resonance between us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's question is "if you forgave infidelity, how did you do it?", not "Should I forgive infidelity?" I would assume they are past the point of needing to repeatedly hear the clichéd and unhelpful "Once a cheater, always a cheater." We all make mistakes, some very serious. Should it be assumed that we will 100% repeat all our mistakes?

The problem is that this person allowed themselves to get to this level through their own rationalization. You could say the same thing about other bad behaviors. Once a stealer always a stealer or once a liar always a liar or once a physical abuser always a physical abuser. Basically it takes that person realizing that they crossed a line and realize that they themselves never want to cross that line again and because the spouse holds the cards to enabling this behavior or not they are stuck either living with someone and not holding them accountable or leaving with the likelihood that they won't return. As the victim they aren't a bystander who can hold the person accountable without major repercussions to the relationship and their life. Most of the time the cheater has rationalized the decision and feels guilty about causing the stress in the marriage but not about the act and so because they haven't rationalized the actual act as bad, it's likely to repeat.

As a BW who reconciled I'd just say that I don't think it's as cut and dried as "staying = enabling" and "leaving = consequences." In a deeply intimate relationship (that's the goal, right?) there's no way to stay with a partner that you've harmed without facing their pain. Every relationship is different, but I know in my relationship, my DH had to put a lot more mental and emotional energy into analyzing himself and changing than he would have if we'd divorced. Even if he were a person without empathy who didn't hurt when faced with my pain, he still had to go through all that time listening to me, thinking about my triggers, giving up most of his social life (which he reintroduced slowly and mindfully), reorganizing the power dynamics in our marriage, time in therapy, etc.

I agree that sweeping infidelity under the rug is bound to bite you sooner or later. Even if cheating doesn't recur, other selfish and harmful behavior no doubt will. But if you've tried to repair the relationship with an eye to restorative justice then it likely wasn't some fun and easy time for the WS.

+1 People who are motivated to change and had personal issues/bad coping skills can and do change. Any WS doing 'the time' is not having an easy go at it. It's forcing them to look at some really ugly truths about themselves and likely to sit with guilt and bad feelings for the very first time---learning how to feel that. Many of these people never sat or even knew what that felt like. Doing therapy, changing their actions, getting anger help/communication help, someone to unpack the childhood issues, etc., can really make them a different, 'healthy' person. IF the strong love was there to begin with and the compatibility and friendship, the family and relationship can be rebuilt, and the next half can be even happier and deeper in intimacy than when the marriage started out---you have laid it all out and seen the barest bones of someone. But, yeah, the WS will be dealing with these ramifications, living in a different way, thinking in a different way and providing complete transparency and trying to forsee potential triggers to help win back the trust. It is an on-going thing. But, they have to be ready and want to change. If you rug sweep or they don't really care and are just playing along---it's noticeable and its bound to fail. I would take personal stories/anecdotes and responses on here very lightly. It all depends on your marriage, your relationship, the people involved and the type of transgressions. There is not a blanket answer and, I'm sorry, NOBODY can know what they would do if they were actually faced with this situation IRL with kids and friends and a long, loving history. IT's much different if you are just dating or don't have kids, houses, inlaws, long relations and decades invested.

Anonymous wrote: … it's like an out-of-body experience. We don't talk about it nearly enough as a society. I just hope I never have the experience again.

I know what you mean, it’s irresistible pull, you cannot breathe in their presence, you’re not in control of your body, you can control your mind if staying away from them and wish you could run away … I have some theory about it
just curious, did you ever feel that way for your wife, that kind of attraction, like in the beginning maybe, in the dating phase, or never? I had that kind of emotion black-hole only for one person, others were not even close