Yes, it is hard.

There's a lot going on. Colleges are interested in brand-building, protecting their yield, and being at the forefront of social change (and in many cases redressing the injustices of the past). The more competitive / elite / recognized the college, the more they are doing this. So they will prioritize URM, first-generation students, increasingly men (because there are so many women), athletes and other "hooked" students. They'll do this because they can, and they want to build their brand and appear more elite.

Covid led to a lot of uncertainty (a wide range of teaching and grading experiences), many school went test-optional (our DD's SAT was cancelled twice because of outbreaks) and the common application means that there are massive numbers of applications to the name-brand schools, and the schools are finding it harder to figure out who's who in terms of qualifications and more importantly who is likely to come (yield protection). And, because a low acceptance rate is perceived as "elite" and brand-building, they tend to pump up applications by marketing to kids they know they have no intention of ever admitting.

But these schools don't necessarily offer a better fit or a better education. It's hype. If you look at true ratings for things that are tied to education (like grad school admissions, student/teacher ratios, etc.) the elite schools suddenly don't look that desirable. And, if the ones you remember from 20-40 years ago as being elite are social engineering, so be it, but your demographic and your kid's simply won't be attractive. We are in a high-achievement area (lots of great kids) and most here aren't URM, aren't first-generation college kids, and are comparatively over-represented in the elite schools. So the odds are challenging.

Fit matters more than ever, and quality of the education. If there's one thing I've learned it's that the Peter pressure in this area and the degree to which the branding hype is bought into is deeply unhealthy. Cast a wide net, and make no assumptions. There's a good school out there for your kid. But it probably won't be the ones you went to, or your peers went to. Your kid isn't all that attractive to them, and they care only about their brand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

Maybe we can't change their minds but we certainly can think they are ridiculous. And what do they plan to do if their kids don't get into the particular name brand schools they think is the only kind acceptable. Disown their child? Lie to the world about where their kid goes to school?

The reality is that there are a lot of students well prepared to do well in college. They do not all fit in a narrow slice of schools that some have deemed acceptable. And, those parents, grandparents, etc. weren't all that special when they got into those schools. They used to be totally in reach for your average excellent student. The current crop of schools that are a great option for today's average excellent student are ones those parents/grandparents think are embarrassing safeties. Get over it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

Um, top 60 undergraduate schools are pretty hard to get into nowadays.

+1 And really in a country with thousands of colleges the idea that only about 60 will help you on a path to success is absolutely ridiculous. I think my kid at Virginia Tech (ranked in the 70s) is going to be fine. As is his cousin at CU Boulder (ranked in the 90s). Not to mention their friends at regional colleges and liberal arts colleges.

How much do federal government jobs care about where you went, outside the top three letter agencies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Common Op. don't be ridiculous. Thousands of colleges out there.

Most of which are not worth going to if you are from an UMC family with a long history of attending top colleges and certain expectations, like coming from a top private school. Those of you who keep posting this flip can let your kids to no name and mediocre schools but for some people that’s just not acceptable.

Better get used to it.

My current senior is going to a top school, just like her siblings, thanks.

I just think those of you spouting the “thousands of colleges” being acceptable for DC area students don’t have a clue about how things are in certain circles of our country. Or maybe you are being deliberately obtuse. Most of those 1,000 colleges will never be acceptable to certain people. And they don’t have to be as they aren’t intended for those people. Of course there are a handful or two of less competitive schools that are fine for kids of these folks who aren’t academically strong or have learning challenges but for the most part there is a subset of acceptable schools and that won’t change. That’s what you are seeing on the DCUM college thread that seems to drive some posters crazy - the ones who keep posting the tripe about there being “thousands of colleges” and “people need to stop focusing on the same 50 schools” etc... You are trying to defeat the very heart of these people’s views on college - people whose families have been UMC and UC for generations, whose grands and greatgrands had degrees from top colleges, whose families have always invested in education and expect the next generation to do that same. It just is what it is. No point in trying to convince those folks differently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

Um, top 60 undergraduate schools are pretty hard to get into nowadays.

No they are not all hard to get into if you are the sort of student who would have looking at top 20 a couple decades ago.

Well I would extend the “more than fine” designation way behind top 60, depending on profession (see the list posted on the previous page).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

I would say the same, if we’re going in that direction—except change it to top 200 undergraduate school.

That is probably very true! What matters is where you go after that which is based on his hard you work in whatever top 200 college you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

Um, top 60 undergraduate schools are pretty hard to get into nowadays.

No they are not all hard to get into if you are the sort of student who would have looking at top 20 a couple decades ago.

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

I would say the same, if we’re going in that direction—except change it to top 200 undergraduate school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

+1. While law school may be focused on LSAT scores, a "prestigious" undergrad can give you a bump at a "prestigious" law school. You may wind up with a Big Law job that you hate, though.

Wouldn't doctor be on the list, too? It's a combination of prerequisites (that can be obtained anywhere), GPA, MCAT scores.

I know a number of people who are law partners at huge firms who didn’t go to seriously impressive undergrad schools.They did go to great law schools, obviously.

Anonymous wrote:SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

Um, top 60 undergraduate schools are pretty hard to get into nowadays.

SO many jobs are completely dependent on grad school, etc and going to any top 60 undergraduate school will be more than fine as long as you do really well when you are there and make efforts to have internships, make a mentor, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

+1. While law school may be focused on LSAT scores, a "prestigious" undergrad can give you a bump at a "prestigious" law school. You may wind up with a Big Law job that you hate, though.

Wouldn't doctor be on the list, too? It's a combination of prerequisites (that can be obtained anywhere), GPA, MCAT scores.

I would add accounting. You might not get recruited for big 4 out of the gate if you go to a bad school but if you can pass the CPA I doubt you’ll end up destitute. Although it’s best to go to an AASCB accredited school (some programs are not accredited by them, they’re accredited by a different org).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

Do not spend money on an expensive or out of state college for OT, PT, Dietician, Nurse - these all have caps on the salaries and are so dependent upon insurance rates. I know several people who went to expensive schools and took out loans for these jobs and they are very vocal about what a mistake it is. An OT I know had no clue how low the salaries are. I encountered a teacher with a masters who went thru grad school not understanding teacher salaries in the US.

Yes, hence the reason why you should go to the cheapest accredited school you can without regard for “prestige” (at least for undergrad) if you would like to enter any of the professions listed above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re going to have to try really hard to convince me that where you go to undergrad matters a ton if you want to be a:

Occupational therapist
Pharmacist
Physical therapist
Teacher
Dietitian
Lawyer
Nurse
Police Officer
School counselor

You lost me at Lawyer, depending if you want Big Law, but I agree with the rest.

+1. While law school may be focused on LSAT scores, a "prestigious" undergrad can give you a bump at a "prestigious" law school. You may wind up with a Big Law job that you hate, though.

Wouldn't doctor be on the list, too? It's a combination of prerequisites (that can be obtained anywhere), GPA, MCAT scores.